How to prevent people you know from abusing psychedelics?

[Forkbender]

Your thoughts, please.

 

[restin]

There is absolutely no-one in my circle of friends that uses psychedelics.

(I know that was a great imput from my side)

 

[ararat]

my friends noticed that fire is nothing to play with just like that pretty fast. I say, let them get burnt one time and they will treat psychedelics with respect.

talking to them about the subject before you let them get burnt is probably even better. the basic stuff, set&setting, dose, sitter, own experiences etc.


or how did you guys do that? did you need one "recreational"-trip that went wrong or did you start off safely from the beginning?

 

[????????]

well i don't think you can trick the person out of it, i think you'd have to talk to the person and ask about the whys and the hows and try to reason with the person and show how his/her behaviour might be dangerous.

 

[Forkbender]

Another question that I find relevant.

How can we prevent people we don't know from abusing psychedelics in public?

Awareness Campaign?

 

[IJesusChrist]

I have a friend who abuses them pretty regularly. If they are in town, he is already on them.

He's at a rave right now as I type. He does mushrooms atleast once a month, but up to 2 time a week. He's done acid regularly but it is rare, and when I had ayahuasca he jumped on the chance immidiatly. He does adirol, ritilin, loratabs, any opiates.

We talk about his problem, but we never confront him, he's 'always right'. Once in a while I can see the affects on him, he's becoming very bipolar - He's either up in the sky, or down in the dirt. He's never very normal (emotionally speaking).

I'd like to know what to say to him too...

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I guess warning about the dangers of doing them the wrong way is one option, but a better strategy might be to make them enthusiastic about the benefits of doing them the right way.

Explain why the seemingly boring setting of staying inside, even with the lights off, and with a friend who remains sober, may actually be more exciting, spectacular and meaningful than tripping outside or in a social setting.

Explain to them the difference between the immanent divine (which you experience with eyes open in a natural setting) and the transcendent divine (which is what you experience on psychedelics when there's a certain amount of sensory deprivation involved). To experience both, it's best to experience the peak in darkness (in silence, or with suitable music), and the afterglow in a forest or near a lake, river or ocean.

Explain to them that dosage should always be adjusted to the setting. It's fine to trip at a festival, as long as they keep the dosage within reasonable limits. But if they're interested in the full potential of psychedelics, and thus want to raise the dosage, they must lower the sensory input.

Explain to them that prolonged reactions like uncomfortable flashbacks are the result of poorly resolved trips, and have nothing to do with the substance itself. Trips that take place in unpredictable settings have more chances of being poorly resolved. Trips that take place in a secluded place with a trusted sitter have much more chances of being resolved and integrated well.

If the person is not interested in experiencing either the immanent or the transcendent divine, or have their basic assumptions about life challenged, tell them to abstain from psychedelics or keep the dosage low. If they just want to have a really crazy experience, let them smoke Salvia.

 

[Forkbender]

^thanks for your input.

let them smoke Salvia.

That will scare them off. :lol:

 

[Forkbender]

Code of Ethics for Spiritual Guides

[Preamble] People have long sought to enrich their lives and to awaken to their full natures through spiritual practices including prayer, meditation, mind-body disciplines, service, ritual, community liturgy, holy-day and seasonal observances, and rites of passage. "Primary religious practices" are those intended, or especially likely, to bring about exceptional states of consciousness such as the direct experience of the divine, of cosmic unity, or of boundless awareness.

In any community, there are some who feel called to assist others along spiritual paths, and who are known as ministers, rabbis, pastors, curanderas, shamans, priests, or other titles. We call such people 'guides': those experienced in some practice, familiar with the terrain, and who act to facilitate the spiritual practices of others. A guide need not claim exclusive or definitive knowledge of the terrain.

Spiritual practices, and especially primary religious practices, carry risks. Therefore, when an individual chooses to practice with the assistance of a guide, both take on special responsibilities. The Council on Spiritual Practices proposes the following Code of Ethics for those who serve as spiritual guides.

1. [Intention] Spiritual guides are to practice and serve in ways that cultivate awareness, empathy, and wisdom.

2. [Serving Society] Spiritual practices are to be designed and conducted in ways that respect the common good, with due regard for public safety, health, and order. Because the increased awareness gained from spiritual practices can catalyze desire for personal and social change, guides shall use special care to help direct the energies of those they serve, as well as their own, in responsible ways that reflect a loving regard for all life.

3. [Serving Individuals] Spiritual guides shall respect and seek to preserve the autonomy and dignity of each person. Participation in any primary religious practice must be voluntary and based on prior disclosure and consent given individually by each participant while in an ordinary state of consciousness. Disclosure shall include, at a minimum, discussion of any elements of the practice that could reasonably be seen as presenting physical or psychological risks. In particular, participants must be warned that primary religious experience can be difficult and dramatically transformative.

Guides shall make reasonable preparations to protect each participant's health and safety during spiritual practices and in the periods of vulnerability that may follow. Limits on the behaviors of participants and facilitators are to be made clear and agreed upon in advance of any session. Appropriate customs of confidentiality are to be established and honored.

4. [Competence] Spiritual guides shall assist with only those practices for which they are qualified by personal experience and by training or education.

5. [Integrity] Spiritual guides shall strive to be aware of how their own belief systems, values, needs, and limitations affect their work. During primary religious practices, participants may be especially open to suggestion, manipulation, and exploitation; therefore, guides pledge to protect participants and not to allow anyone to use that vulnerability in ways that harm participants or others.

6. [Quiet Presence] To help safeguard against the harmful consequences of personal and organizational ambition, spiritual communities are usually better allowed to grow through attraction rather than active promotion.

7. [Not for Profit] Spiritual practices are to be conducted in the spirit of service. Spiritual guides shall strive to accommodate participants without regard to their ability to pay or make donations.

8. [Tolerance] Spiritual guides shall practice openness and respect towards people whose beliefs are in apparent contradiction to their own.

9. [Peer Review] Each guide shall seek the counsel of other guides to help ensure the wholesomeness of his or her practices and shall offer counsel when there is need.



This draft for public comment was released 10 August 2001. The current version is available at www.csp.org/code.html.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I'm letting him smoke my DMT this week(end?) and I am feeling guilty.DMT is probably the safest drug to give him, but I still feel like I'm feeding his urge to not be sober.

... He is rarely sober.

 

[Forkbender]

Maybe you two could do a ritual together (= lure him in/take care of setting) with a few basic rules for preparation (= abstain for few days prior and prepare mentally/take care of set). Otherwise I wouldn't give him any more, because, as you said, that is feeding the urge.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Code of Ethics for Spiritual Guides

Very good list indeed. It's like a summary of all the books on psychedelic therapy I've been reading these past two months. I can definitely sense the authors are well aware of Stan Grof's work.

edit: I've actually seen that website before, and in 2008 even spoke about it with Thomas Roberts, one of the main contributers. I didn't know Frances Vaughan yet, but will definitely check his work out now.

 

[restin]

food for thought: what's wrong with taking psychedelics for fun?

 

[magickmumu]

food for thought: what's wrong with taking psychedelics for fun?

Psychedelics may have a funny side to them, they have a more serious side as well.
If you go into a trip with the intention to just have fun, you may not know how to deal with the not so unpleasant stuff.

My feeling is that if you want to take psychedelics you need to prepare to deal with the positive as well as the negative aspects of the trip.

 

[VerusDeus]

Eventually every abuser get his ass whooped... And up untill that moment I would really let them decide for themselves. Trying to tell someone not to take drugs will rarely help, and mostly results in that person just not liking you anymore and proceeding to do as much drugs as he/she desires.

Other than that I think most drug-abusers are very aware that they have a problem, and are mostly just waiting to hit the iceberg, giving them a valid reason to stop.

But, people who aren't aware of possible dangers of abuse should definately be informed, just leave the decision to themselves.
That's what I think at least.

 

[restin]

Psychedelics may have a funny side to them, they have a more serious side as well.
If you go into a trip with the intention to just have fun, you may not know how to deal with the not so unpleasant stuff.

My feeling is that if you want to take psychedelics you need to prepare to deal with the positive as well as the negative aspects of the trip.

I very much agree that set and setting is always important - which includes a good preparation. But you can also prepare yourself to trip on a party etc. so that's no contradiction.

 

[mysticwarrior]

Eventually every abuser get his ass whooped... And up untill that moment I would really let them decide for themselves.

I also won't complain, but letting others abuse psychedelic's can cause governments to turn into pigs. In the end, the pigs can't do much about it.

 

[Brugmansia]

Are we talking about improper misuse or addiction? As for misuse, a brief and obvious summary about set and setting should do the trick.

Psychedelics in the proper sense, cannot lead to actual addiction. I don't believe one is merely craving for a psychedelic high alone when having the urge to trip. But repeated intakes due to a social impairement do exist though it's a very unique appearance. But Syd Barret is an example of a LSD abuser.

DMT can become an habit if one has a plenty amount of it, but it's not problematic if you keep your rationalism. The world inside with it's inhabitants is yourself, period.

THC, Ketamine, DXM, PCP, MDMA and possibly 2CB (rare) can result in prolonged use. But these are not entheogens in the proper sense.

 

[st.bot.32]

I very much agree that set and setting is always important - which includes a good preparation. But you can also prepare yourself to trip on a party etc. so that's no contradiction.

I don't see how there's anything wrong as long as you aren't harming yourself or others. Some of my most enjoyable and meaningful trips have been with others in a fun, but safe (usually sober experienced responsible people about) setting. The wonderful thing about such a setting too is that amazing conversation aside, being around others really gives you an opportunity to hold a mirror up to yourself and see how you project onto the world around you.. something quite different from shutting yourself in a room and introspecting for 8 hours.

Personally I find learning and thinking highly enjoyable and rewarding. I find using my imagination and being creative extremely fun. Hence so far even the few difficult trips I've had, well, I do find them enjoyable somehow in retrospect.

But I guess my definition of fun is somewhat different from that of others. I don't turn off my brain for 'fun' or 'relaxation' generally speaking

 

[Forkbender]

I've used LSD a few times on festivals and at least once on a party. But I generally get a feel for the atmosphere before I do it. If it is good, and I feel good, I take it. I've seen people taking a blotter while standing in line for the boom festival last year, when they knew they had to wait in line for at least another 12 hours. That borders on stupidity, although there were at least 15000 experienced trippers there, who could help when things would go wrong, so they chose the right line. The misuse I meant involved people who aren't very experienced and have (to me at least) obvious issues (anxiety, stress, low self esteem), who take the drug just because it is 'awesome' on a weekday in public (Amsterdam, which is very crowded in summer). It will probably be okay, but I'm not comfortable with people using psychedelics if they don't take set and setting in mind. Unfortunately I won't have the chance to talk to this specific person before the trip, but I only talked to the person he's going to trip with (his brother, moderately experienced).