How to extract DMT (The Easy & low-cost way)

[IJesusChrist]

SO.

MHRB is acidified. Naptha pulls fats 2-3x. Then basified to a pH <11.

1.Extracted with chloroform.
2.Extracted with toluene

Which would be better to use in this case?

The problem arose when I realized that almost all of the internet failed attempts at extracting DMT from MHRB is due to not enough NaOH (not high enough pH). Naptha is very non-polar, so in order for DMT to cross over, the pH must be very very high.

Toluene is slightly more polar, thus the pH can be slightly lower.

Chloroform is even more polar thus an even lower pH can be used (however NaOH + Chloroform = no good)

So, do you think basifying to ~pH 10 and extracting with chloroform (via ammonia base) or toluene would affect yields?

Thanks doods

 

[buffachino]

So you’re doing several acid washes (at ph2?) and removing the solids, de-fatting aqueous solution with naphtha, then basifying to ph11 for non-polar extraction?

You used this same procedure in the past using naphtha again as the non-polar extraction solvent at this ph and achieved no yield at all?

If so, that is strange.

How are you measuring ph?

Are you using powdered root bark?

Try using boiling naphtha then do a freeze precipitation, decant the naphtha and do successive pulls. or perhaps a higher ph.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I did get yields, but they were very minimal and not very clean (my bad with no defat on my last pulling).

Why I came up with this is because with naptha, you need the highest pH possible! With toluene or chloroform that massive pH isn't needed.

With naptha pull you need like a 100:92 ratio of bark:NaOH.

That's dumb!

 

[Jahvisions]

the PH 13 is because to break emulsions.

(dmt has a pKa around 9 so pKa+2 should extract 99% of the alkaloids)

chloroform and toluene both work but extract a lot of more stuff. especially with toluene you extract a yellow/orange spice which is called jungle spice by most and this is a lot stronger and also different from nn-dmt, so maybe chloroform is better.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Hmmm.

Lets see.

The pH 13 is to break the emulsion yes, but that emulsion breaking at such a high pH is because we are using such a nonpolar solvent. For the emulsion to finally release into the nonpolar, we need to really push it in there...

Toluene & chloroform are polar, and will break the emulsion at a lower pH (if my understanding is correct).

This way, we do not need a 100:92 ratio of bark:NaOH to break emulsions,

with toluene it would be ~ 100:70?60?

Chloroform 100:50?60? Idk for sure - these are extreme guesstimates.

But their increased polarity WILL pull more things over - you're right. 'Jungle spice' or dark spice, whatever... must be more polar than DMT.

 

[buffachino]

How are you measuring Ph?

 

[IJesusChrist]

I'm not

 

[buffachino]

There's your problem.

 

[IJesusChrist]

The problem isn't my yields - I figured that problem out, you just raise the pH...

Reread what I'm posting - it's more about alternative teks than the previous problems.

 

[buffachino]

I just wonder how you ever plan to get good results without proper measurement.
It will simply take a lot of trial and error I suppose.
It’s just harder to know what went wrong if you don’t know all the relevant variables.

As for alternative teks, there are many out there floating around; new ones popping up and old ones being revised, almost daily.

I suggest you have a look on DMT nexus, they seem to have some great ideas for alternatives, especially (to my delight) teks using non toxic solvents and reagents.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Ugh...

Buffa!! I don't have problems!! This is just a theoretical post!

What happened to my yields long ago has been cleared up - I fixed it by fixing my friends problem. He had the same exact problem I did.

Yucky emulsions not seperating - the emulsion held the DMT, or the DMT was just not ready to pass over while emulsion not tamed. So when the emulsion settled, the dmt also settled, so when evap was attempted - no dmt crystallized!

Hmmm! So, I read a bit. and I figured out the problem. We need the emulsion simply be pushed into the non-polar - the emulsion to break, the DMT to become a solute in the non-polar. Got it. If I carried out an extraction I have 100% confidence I would get a very good yield.

But. What this post was getting at. Is I don't want to buy 500 grams of NaOH and use almost all of it for one extraction of 500 grams of bark! That's very uneconomical! So, what did I do? I thought of changing solutes - a more polar solvent on the organic side will yield DMT at a lower pH, thus using less NaOH than with naptha!

You're totally misreading my purpose

 

[Jahvisions]

I don't really understand what you mean by 'pushing emulsions in the non-polar'? But it's only the alkaloids that go there. The high pH is to degrade plantmaterials that work as emulsifiers.

 

[IJesusChrist]

AH. Ok that makes sense, I Wasn't understanding the mechanism.

So then the emulsion gets pushed into the polar. The alkaloids then would rather stay on the non-polar. Good! Good!

Still!

Nobody has commented on the pH ranges of these other solvents:
Naptha : pH >11 (13 is guaranteed)
Toluene : 10-11?
Chloroform : 9.5-10?

Edit: By the way, Chloroform + NaOH creates a very reactive intermediate:

Does anyone know if by using chloroform you must then use a different base? Possibly ammonia?

Someone smoked DMT this morning. It makes them feel soooooooooo goooooooooooooooood. It's like everything is wiped, clean slate.

 

[Jahvisions]

I don't think anything is pushed anywere. And emulsions is just a mixture of a polar and non-polar slovent hold together by a emulsifier, a molecule that had a polar and non-polar part. The base just makes the alkaloid from salt to freebase and from soluble from polar to non-polar.

Your hypothesis about pH-range doesn't work like that, as I said when the PH is Pka + 2 you will dissolve 99% of the alkaloids. It simple uncharges all the alkaloids making them insoluble in a polar solvent and going to the non-polar solvent which does dissolves the alkaloids and this is energetically favorble.
So when the pH is 9,5-10 a lot of alkaloids is still polar so stays in the watery layer.
Polarity is not the only factor that plays a role for instance naphta(petroleum-ether) is more polar than toluene or chloroform but nahta and chloroform give bad results on a mescaline extraction.

The key to avoid emulsions is to do extensive filtration so that almost no dust, or particles are gone. Second, warm both the naphta as the polar solution till 50-60 degrees on a hot waterbad.

I don't know about the reactive intermediate but what you drew isn't NaOH but I think ammonia is to weak. The QT-extraction gives DCM, chloroform and ether as and alternative and I know toluene and xylene also work.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I am almost certain that naptha is most definately not more polar than toluene or chloroform...

Both toluene & chloroform have some dissolved particles in water - naptha has nearly none.

anyways, new question;

a friend of mine recently did a new extraction, and I cannot talk for him but he said for sure he got the pH to 13 which I am sure of, and he extracted with VM&P. What he got out was a very large amount (un weighed) but probably >500mg of crystals, pure white. What he had used for bark was <30 grams. this is nearly 2%

 

[timespace]

I am almost certain that naptha is most definately not more polar than toluene or chloroform...

Both toluene & chloroform have some dissolved particles in water - naptha has nearly none.

anyways, new question;

a friend of mine recently did a new extraction, and I cannot talk for him but he said for sure he got the pH to 13 which I am sure of, and he extracted with VM&P. What he got out was a very large amount (un weighed) but probably >500mg of crystals, pure white. What he had used for bark was <30 grams. this is nearly 2%

naphta is much less polar than chloroform for sure.

Your friend's crystals, were they pure?
But I don't understand what your new question is

 

[IJesusChrist]

He used a protein scoop of the bark powder - somewhere around 25 grams. He got out a very large amount - crystal white. I would guess what he got is atleast 1.5% by weight.

How is that possible! most mhrb is said to have 1%?

He hasn't smoked it yet, it smells of DMT, looks of DMT. But how can he be getting >1% by weight?! He only used Hcl, NaOH, naptha, so none of his solvents would have dissolved over...

 

[timespace]

he probably worked very cleanly and had great quality material.
Which solvent did he use? He also may have extracted other tryptamine alcaloids.

 

[IJesusChrist]

naptha ^
vm&p, it seemed to evaporate much quicker than my vm&p though, which I found odd...

 

[timespace]

Maybe your friend just heated it more than you...
I don't like naphta extraction that much, I prefer using diethyl ether. Much less emulsions, evaporates faster, and since it's pure solvent there are no residues like you have with naphta (and it smells good^^).
You don't get pure DMT though, since you can't rectristallize well from ether I simply evaporate it, and ether also surely dissolves other alcaloids present in the root bark. But the stuff still sends you to hyperspace :mrgreen: