How to change the war on drugs (lets do it together)

[endlessness]

So here’s my plan: Write a very good text (however long that will turn out, who knows maybe a book) with coherent and convincing arguments for the legalization/decriminalization of drugs, and also with a plan/suggestions/ideas on how to actually put it in practice

We see all around people mentioning here and there why they think the war on drugs is stupid and useless or counter-productive, why things should be legalized or decriminalized and so on.. But mostly what we see is isolated arguments, opinions and a lack of coherency and better formulation. Also we mostly see criticism but very little practical suggestions, and also little information to back up the claims

So I have my own suggestions and arguments, but I’m only one person with few articles, official data and scientific studies of my knowledge to back up what I think. I figured if I ever want to come up with something proper, I need help. And what better place to ask for help than all these drug-related forums?

What Im asking you guys is to write in this thread a collection of arguments and ideas on how to change the war on drugs, on what can be done, on why it is wrong, on why it fails, on the history of why it became like this and so on… It would be great if some people could show official statistics with sources, and scientific studies..

Then I will start writing this thing up, might take a long time, but I will update everyone on how it is turning out, so people can give feedback and help editing…

In the worse case, we will have a collection of good info to check up when having a discussion with an annoying anti-drug person haha. In the best scenario, we come up with an amazing trans-disciplinary work that might be so convincing it could help governments and organizations establish measures to help the world dealing better with drugs…. Either way, it’s no loss of time imo…

So, any contribution is greatly appreciated, from little comments, to ideas, to criticism, to already done works and suggestions of books, to scientific articles and official statistics, and so on… Thank you

 

[Ultima]

well, iv found that psychadellics have helped me in many different ways. iv gone through my share of addictions, (mild and a bit heavier) but what always seems to bring me back to baseline is a good trip of either cacti or DMT(ayhausica). i find that DMT is a VERY good learning drug. on my last trip (almost a full year ago) i was going through a bit of depression due to an extreme drug binge, (not one just one drug). for a few weeks, i had gone through coke, E, opiats (darvacet, lotsss of perks, a couple oxys, and dalatas) HBWR seeds, and to top it off, i had just smoked my last hit of sal ever. (that last hit of salvia destroyed my perception of life). so after all that, i was going through a bit of depression. i had just talked to my cousin (who is the one that introduced me to the phycadellic world) and he had told me that he had just made some cacti tea, and some ayhausica. at this time i had never done either of the two. but i figured i had just had a rough couple weeks of drugs.. why not do some more! so a few days later once he arrived to my house, i chugged down a bottle of cacti tea. (i had no idea what cacti did, or how long it lasted) and to top it off my cousin told me to eat 3 HBWR seeds with it. (and i did) after about 6 hours i was peaking. i went through a bit of an emotional state just thinking about where my life was going due to my lifestyle and how i used to be such a nice/caring guy, yet was sumhow turned into this "bad guy". i thought about this for a couple of hours trying to figure out how to fix my problems, and had some success. but after that, i just thought i should "go with it". so instead of thinking about the problems i had been having, i just had the time of my life. i cannot describe to you how intense and amazing that experience was. yet after the trip, i still hadnt really solved much. (i think this was because i was with a couple people i didnt know. iv found that the trips on cacti done alone are MUCH more personal) the next couple weeks i had experimented with ayhausica, and once i thought i could handle anything, i took a dose higher then any of my others. i went to the bathroom to purge, but luckaly held it in. (i had read on the net different ways to help calm your stomach, and i found giving yourself a sturnum rub, with deap breathing really does help. (also drooling a bit) anyway, i went back to my room and spent the next 3-4 hours lying down on my bed. i remember coming too for a split second and saying "i want to stop learning stuff and start TRIPPING!" that trip has helped me in so many different ways i cant express how glad i am that i had that experience. since then i havent been addicted to anything (other then smoking pot) but that is a choice not an addiction.i cant say that trip was quite.. enjoyable, but i will definatly do the same dose agian, if i ever hit hard times agian.

so yeah. i think DMT is a drug that helps you stay away from other drugs. it should be accessable to any pharmacy, (as well as iboga).

 

[Subtle_Nod]

I would love to help but I cannot believe in your cause.

Not yet anyway.

While the war on drugs solves no purpose but to keep law enforcement, lawyers, judges and prison guards in a job.

Like I say about people (although, I can't remember if I said it here or not), to understand people, you cannot stop at describing what a person is. You have to describe the planet and gravity so you can describe what walking is, the plants and animals to describe what eating is. You also have to give some examples of real people and situations, the state of their country, how their country grew through time to be in it's current state and the politics and beliefs of that country.

You cannot stop the war on drugs because in doing so, you would be making a lot of people jobless and to top it off, chances are - you live in a capitalist country - you are seeing capitalism in action with the war on drugs. The people who call themselves anti drugs get a lot of money from the people to fight drugs thus they make their living and the people who are pro drugs get their money from growing and selling illegally.

The current situation where people employed by the government are given money to fight drugs and the underground makes a lot of money selling drugs is the only situation where both parties can still have a job and make money. Both sides are happy.

This makes it the Optimal Capitalist Solution. Two things would need to change - either your country needs to stop being a capitalist country OR you need to stop the people who are anti drug being able to profit.

The last is almost what you are doing, but you cannot do it by asking for a consensus, because people are never going to consent to being without a job when they have a family and kids.

I think you are fighting the war from the wrong side of the fence.

You need to:

Don't get caught.

If less and less people get caught, they can no longer justify spending money on catching people.

Do your level best to make sure other people don't get caught.

The same as above, the lower arrest rates go, the less money will be given to police forces to catch offenders.

Do not deal with the criminal underground.

Anything that is likely to cause drug related crime shines more light on the issue. When drug dealers shoot it out, money is allocated so that this problem can be fought. When drug dealing is not profitable, arrests will go down, money will go down.

Public perception will also change. There are still a significant amount of people that view drugs as a problem. While they have this view, you will not be able to change the law.

Most of the war on drugs can be fought by teaching people how to act sensibly, show personal responsibility and getting them to grow their own instead of handing money over to drug dealers.

If you release a book on why the war on drugs is bad however, they will put more money into producing leaflets and T.V. ads telling people why you are wrong. People will believe T.V.

 

[Lion]

Do you have money or power??
Nice try then

 

[Subtle_Nod]

Do you have money or power??
Nice try then

Don't you love it when you write a small essay and someone sums it all up in 9 words and a smiley face? :lol:

 

[Forkbender]

since then i havent been addicted to anything (other then smoking pot) but that is a choice not an addiction.

:lol:

The war on drugs is wrong because it is based on the premise that illegal drugs can serve no purpose and cannot be beneficial. Because it assumes that drugs can be eradicated. Because it takes away responsibility for one's own body and mind. Because it subsidizes organized crime indirectly by making drugs less accessible. Because it throws money away through the legal system.

I have my doubts about any of these arguments ever reaching their goal, though. Decisionmakers know this stuff and disregard it every single day.

 

[Brugmansia]

Why fight against a tsunami if each individual mind can dive under water to save his inner freedom? 8)

 

[endlessness]

great, thanks for the replies!

Ultima, thanks for the report, you´re definitely not the only one who felt that psychedelics can be a great tool to help us

Subtle_Nod .. First about my cause, well, as I said, I dont necessarily think im going to change anything, but I dont say immediately that im can´t change anything either..

I think this dis-empowerment is one of the tricks the modern ´democratic´ (yeah right) capitalism plays on us: The feeling that we can´t do anything..
We are supposed to feel like worthless, and let our faiths with the leaders, as if they trully can do something, as if they represent us.. But you know what? All the true paradigmatic changes came from individuals who believed otherwise.. So why not? Why not change? If nothing comes of it, at least we have our clean conscience, knowing that we tried and not sat around on our asses, conforming and being cynical to whoever tried otherwise (im not talking about you here.. on the inverse, im very thankful for your nice input)

and anyways, Im not stuck to any messianic missions, I dont have expectations regarding this, so its not like im setting myself up for dissapointment or wasted time.. As I said, in the least, we will have a collection of arguments and official statistics to consult when having a discussion with anti-drug people


Another thing.. I do know there are loads of people with ´invested interest in the ongoing game´, and I know that there are jobs depending on this.. But I dont think this is the sole or even the main reason why drugs are illegal.. I think there are many reasons, one of them being ´inertia´.. It is hard to overcome a situation because one faces opposing forces, but I believe a lot of the opposing forces come from the mistaken idea that it´s either all or nothing, drugs being illegal or legal dope-dealers selling crack to our kids.. Thats why I think a comprehensive argument with practical notions on how to help legalization becoming reality might be useful, whether to really achieve it or to at least educate some people who are against into realizing there are possible benefits to it..

for example, I was thinking of how a drug legalization plan would need to involve short-term measures, mid-term measures and long term measures, and that it cant be done at once.. Something like this:

Short-term:

Immediate prohibition of any drug propaganda (no alcohol or medicine on tv commercials or outdoors.. if one cant advertise illegal drugs, then one cant advertise legal drugs which are also destructive)

Gradually increase taxing of alcohol and cigarretes, part of the money going for health, part of the money going for research and education

Increasing research such as the multi-disciplinary one in Britain that made a rating of drugs according to their problems, and ended up rating alcohol and cigarretes in the top of the list.. Make more researches of the kind but also with benefits, not just dangers, of all drugs

Decriminalization of natural plant drugs

Mid-term:

Publishing result of researches, making more researches

Adopting measures of damage-reduction (clean syringes, free drug testing, psychological support for tripping people, etc)

Classifying drugs separately according to researches. Each drug needs to be addressed differently.

Obligatory drug education in schools with unbiased researches as base

Educating doctors about drugs in an unbiased way

Decriminalization of small amounts of most drugs

Long-term:

Full legalization of all drugs


(or whatever, but needs to be some long term plan that will take care of separate sides of the question such as education, advertisement, judicial and criminal system, health, etc etc)

btw, I do agree with you that we all need to be careful into not getting caught, being smart and also not dealing with criminal groups... though I also think think that other things need to be done


Hey lion.. I may not be friends with all the presidents in the world, but being middle class and ´officialy´ educated, I feel I have to obligation to make some sort of positive contribution because I have more connections and power than most people in the world.. If nothing comes out, so be it, but I tried..

Not to mention that, as I said, I dont want to necessarily change the world, but I like writing and if we have a collection of good arguments to check during discussions, then it´s already something positive, isnt it?



Forkbender, thanks a lot, those are good points

 

[user_1919]

Here is my opinion, that I believe any sane person could see that the 'war on drugs' needs to stop, and shit needs to be rewired.

Anyways, the only reason the 'war on drug' exists is because authorities have projected these substances to the underground. I BLAME authorities for all the muders that have happened to every person in a drug related situation. If the authroities would have NOT projected these substances to the underground, than NO ONE would be hurt. Individuals could walk into a store, buy what they want, and walk out; no one is hurt this way. I BLAME the authorities for the stigma around 'drugs'. Many individuals now have the impression that substances such as LSD, Psilocybin Mushrooms, Marijuana, and DMT are bad substances, when infact they are very unique, mind-expanding substances that NEED to be used in the evolutionary process of man-kind. The authorities have really screwed it up this time. They have brought it WAY to far, and something seriously needs to change. Innocent people are serving long periods of jail time for consuming something that has been given to us by mother nature. Just because a few power hungry idiots don't agree with expanding you mind, it shouldn't be the same for the rest of the population. The more I think about our society and culture, the more it resembles Brave New World's society. Like I'm not even joking, it's almost 100% the same, minus the conditioning factories.

So what should be done? EVERY drug legalized. Even the hard ones. People need free choice on what they want to do. Herion, Cocaine, and other hard drugs should be sold in stores; seperate from those of psychedeic stores. All psychedelic drugs should be sold, but in a manner that is controlled. The way Ayahuasca cermonies take place is a perfect example. If you want to journey deep into the spritual realm, than you should be doing it in a place where you are watched over, and safe. There should be sessions for Ayhauasca, smoke-able DMT, Psilocybin Mushroom, and every other psychedelic drug. Individuals should be allowed to journey in group where they are safe from doing stupied things like jumping off a roof or something. And with Marijuana, well that is just a given, should be sold openly, to ANYONE, in everystore. I don't think there should be an age limit on Marijuana. The more you wait to subject children to these substances, the more conditioned they get by there culture, therefore the harder it is the break the culture barrier between true self and culture self. And herion, cocaine, and other substances of such nature should be sold openly to of age individuals, but at these places where they are sold, there should be help needed if they want it. Most of these addicts can't stop, but they want to. If they want to stop, send them to an Ayhauasca of Ibogaine session. Both of those substances will work mircles with brain chemistry, and possiblty completely remove there addiction. I bet, if this system was implemented, most individuals would turn to the more 'psychedelic substances' than the harder drugs. But if someone wants to do harder drugs, than that is their fault, and their choice, so let them be.

PEACE & LOVE

 

[Twilight]

Woah, I totally agree with you! That is exactly how I see it.

Hm, I would want a warning for the addictive drugs. But that's kind of an obvious thing to do.

 

[tryptonaut]

So what should be done? EVERY drug legalized. Even the hard ones. People need free choice on what they want to do. Herion, Cocaine, and other hard drugs should be sold in stores; seperate from those of psychedeic stores. All psychedelic drugs should be sold, but in a manner that is controlled. The way Ayahuasca cermonies take place is a perfect example. If you want to journey deep into the spritual realm, than you should be doing it in a place where you are watched over, and safe. There should be sessions for Ayhauasca, smoke-able DMT, Psilocybin Mushroom, and every other psychedelic drug.

I think that would be the best way to control drugs as well. If you argument "well, but these drugs are dangerous" - then why is skydiving and bungee-jumping allowed? These sports pose real risks to your health and they're supposedly addictive (and expensive!) as well!

The war on drugs can only stop if there is a general mind-change. As long as the general opinion (an opinion you won't change with educated essays!) is towards "drugs are bad" then any politician can hack into that feeling and abuse it...
I have seen the green party in Germany lose all their ideals as soon as they came to power in 1998 - not because all their leaders suddenly changed to the bad side, but because they just realized they weren't able to stand against public opinion and world politics if they stuck to their original ideas (including the legalization of cannabis). Sad as it sounds, but they didn't stand a chance against national and worldwide ignorance and they had to back down to be accepted at all... They did make a little difference because they made their party eligible - but the change is just slooooooow...

I mean, 3/4 (or more?) of the people I know have tried cannabis, most of the rest know somebody who smokes. Most of them would say it's not a real threat to anyone - so why the fuck can't it be legalized? I guess I just know the wrong people and so many others still think you take cannabis iv with a syringe and it kills you right away...

 

[WetStaples]

Make sure to check these vids out:

Penn & Teller: Bullshit! - War on Drugs

Also, know that it's been done to an extent (that's a sort of popular TV show). But yeah, good luck!

 

[grassisgreener]

The World Health Organization Documents Failure of U.S. Drug Policies

http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/90295/

Some of the most striking numbers are from the Netherlands, where adults are permitted to possess a small of marijuana and purchase it from regulated businesses. Some U.S. officials have claimed that these Dutch policies have created some sort of decadent cesspool of drug abuse, but the new study demolishes such assertions: In the Netherlands, only 19.8 percent have used marijuana, less than half the U.S. figure.

Even more striking is what the researchers found when they asked young adults when they had started using marijuana. Again, the United States led the world, with 20.2 percent trying marijuana by age 15. No other country was even close, and in the Netherlands, just 7 percent used marijuana by 15 -- roughly one-third of the U.S. figure.

The war on drugs propagates itself. If it wasn't for the government pouring (and wasting) BILLIONS of dollars into the DEA and police stations across the nation, it wouldn't be so lucrative to sell psychoactive substances. The risk keeps the profit margin huge. However, this situation is good for both the dealers and the law enforcement agencies because it keeps thousands (and thousands) of pigs employed and it keeps those entrepreneurs who are too smart to get caught filthy rich...

is it to much to ask for to have an educated country and a government that is not unreasonably hostile to psychoactives. these chemicals are here for a reason, with responsible use there is so much to learn. Unfortunately, due to our government's close mindedness they have received negative connotations and this becomes ingrained in our society.

**this article also pretty much indirectly debunks the gateway theory, or should I say myth?

forgive me if i don't make sense haha :weedman: :weedman:

--first post by the way, ive been reading these forums for a while and i think there is a lot of good information and great people here

 

[HeartCore]

removed the troll food

 

[Enivid]

Look at theese guys:

www.LEAP.cc

Cops Say Leaglize Drugs! They have good arguments and they have been working against drugs for maany years