How has Chrisitanity become the result of many deaths?

[user_1919]

I know that this is a true statement. In my debate about psychedelic drugs against a fundemental Christian, he in his blog mentioned people being killed because of drugs. Like fights over drugs, people killing people for money and that sorta stuff that doesnt happen with my use. Anyways I told him to replace the word 'drugs' with Christianity and how Christiantiy has resulted to many deaths. I know this is true, but I need some backup information on how this has happened. I know GOD and space_is_the_place know an extensive amount of this. Pleas inform me, thanks

 

[GOD]

HeartCore knows loads about the bad side of christianity , look in his bible threads , and if you ask him i think he will tell you where to get some more information . And read the "Drugs in the bible" thread , its full of things that could be usefull to you .

Your debate should not be against him , it should be against his beliefs . Better said it should be a debate with him about his beliefs .

Ask him about wine wich is a hard drug and one of the bigest killers in the world , that jesus recomended at the last meal and about him changing water to wine . That the churches use wine as a sacrement and how many deaths are asociated with it . More than with all other drugs put together . That they brewed and still brew beer and make wine . Ask him about all the deaths on the roads by drunken people . Tell him about the two gospels that contradict each other about what jesus had as he was on the cross , and that it wasnt vinegar it was opium . Tell him that people kill each other for many reasons and that its not the drugs its the people . Talk about :-

The crusades . Millions were sent to their deaths and killed for political power .
The dark ages . = 1000 years of repression and total stand still in the world , caused and controlled by the church , in gods name .
The witch hunts where tens of thousands of inocent people were tortured into making false confessions and then burnt .
The catholic church had a hand in the extermination of many indigenous peoples across the world , especialy in south america .
The catholic and other churches watched the hollocaust against the european jews and used it politicaly to gain and keep power .
Christian fundamentalists back and finance the war on islam / also known as the war on terror , and the hollocaust in palastine .
The church blesses armys and goes to war with them instead of condeming them . They have forgoten or ignore their own rules like " Thou shalt not kill" , "Thou shalt not take the lords name in vain" and "Thou shalt not covert thy neigbours ox"
The countrys where the catholic church has power are some of the countrys with the biggest mafia problems .
The catholic church uses the confesional secrecy to gain and keep controle . They have links to the mafia and hide people / give them political asylum from justice in the vatican . People like arch bishop marchincas the ex bishop of chicago .

Wich church does he belong to ? If he says he is not a catholic ask him why his sekte uses the bible wich is a catholic book . Ask him if the bible is totaly true why it contradicts itself at least 101 times ? If he is a mormon tell him about mormon tea wich is made out of Ephedra wich contains the drug Ephedrin . If he is a jehovas witness ask him about the book of revalations where it says that 144,000 people reach the kingdom of heaven and how that fits with the fact that there are 7,000,000 jehovas witnesses in the world today ?

Ask him about his god sending the flood and killing nearly the whole population of the world , and most of the animals wich hadnt done anything wrong . Ask him why his god alows wars and why he doesnt stop them if he is a good and loving god ?

What about telling me the web adress of his blog so i can see exactly what he says , then i might be able to help you more ? I wont join in the debate though .

 

[buffachino]

Let’s not forget the Spanish inquisition! Also, the fact that the entire Christian faith, if not all predeceasing and archaic religious beliefs, those based from Judaism and Islam or not, are simply astrological worship which condones and endorses the use of psychoactive plants and sacraments to aid in the achievement of enlightenment and peace with yourself, the world and the greater cosmos!

 

[ararat]

please check out Richard Dawkins, he's my hero.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viruses_of_the_Mind <-- an essay by him
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion <-- his new book

 

[user_1919]

thanks everyone, GOD I will send you the link, do you have myspace, because it is a myspace blog ?

 

[GOD]

Nope . The only space i have is that wich surrounds our mother earth and that between my ears .

 

[Forkbender]

please check out Richard Dawkins, he's my hero.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viruses_of_the_Mind <-- an essay by him
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion <-- his new book

In my humble opinion Richard Dawkins is just as bad, or even worse, than a fundamentalist Christian. He states basically that science doesn't make the same mistakes as religion, but in the way he presents it, he makes all these mistakes.

1. He defines religion as something which is dogmatic and then shows that they don't change their beliefs in the face of evidence suggesting something else might be true. How obvious of a mindloop can one be in?
2. He claims that science is open-minded and therefore more objective than religion, while carefully avoiding the idea that subjectivism has recently come back in science (quantum-physics, most soft sciences, medicine, etc.). He also refuses to accept that within science there are loads of people that are simply too stupid to think otherwise and too rigid to accept a new idea. The whole of 20th century philosophy of science has shown him wrong.
3. He denies that religion can teach something to people about themselves and claims that religion is dangerous. Of course religion has had a lot of violence in it's history, but one can easily show that violence occured only in case that worldly matters were infused in clerical doctrine. Power over people corrupts faith.

Even if we accept these points as true, Dawkins doesn't really fit the bill of an objective scientist, as he is evidently not willing to listen to a religious person, stating that it is highly unlikely that this person might be right. Religion for him is about a non-existing entity, not needed to prove anything. In my opinion, religion is another way to see the world. People will not listen to you if you argue that their way of seeing the world is wrong, which is in essence who they really are, part of their identity. Dawkins says to believers: 'you are wrong', eventhough he claims he is only talking about their beliefs. If we accept religion is a way to see the world, a standpoint which one can take, we can learn to appreciate the wisdom within religion, instead of just focusing on the bad parts that we find in any human institution, including science.

Peace.

 

[ararat]

well, I think you are right to some extent, but I think that it isn't that bad. He is aggressive because the people won't listen, you have to be provoking. I agree with him that it is really bad, almost a crime, to indoctrine children with some sort of faith, be it christianity. Additionally he stands up against evangelicals and other fundamentalists, which is good too because I do see a threat in them. they are too extreme. I mean take a look at the USA! they have an evangalical as president! I think that's sick. this is a man who claims that he feels that god speaks through him. for me that sounds like an illness, doesn't it?
If somebody wants to believe in some sort of god, ok do it. but when these people start to influence other people it has gone too far. I HATE it when some random christian guy wants to give me cds of his guru (my uncle for expample. I think they have like 9 children now, not sure though... he's in a sect.) or offering me that I could have the book of mormon for free or anything else. I once met a guy who was working in the czech republic (he was german) for mormons. WORKING to proselytise people in the walking area, he gets money for doing that. he even learned czech for that.

but well, I have to agree with you . atheists tend to be fundamental too.

Peace

 

[Forkbender]

But I don't think Dawkins' aggression will be very useful. I mean, you say that you don't like people trying to convert you, it's the same for believers who read or listen to Dawkins: they don't like him. How will they listen to him if people don't like him? Fundamentalism has got nothing to do with religion, it has got something to do with a believe-system, which can of course be religious, but it can also be communistic, rationalistic, capitalistic or even scientific. Science is of great help, but we shouldn't deify it or else we will become trapped in our own minds. Both Dawkins and your proselytizing friend want to tell people the Truth, capital T, without knowing that it is only their respective truth.

 

[GOD]

Buff , I`m not sure what you mean by "predeceasing" , i think it was a typing slip , and that you mean preceading ??? And what exactly do you mean by Judaism and Islam having "Astrological" roots please ???


misery , Dawkins seems to me to be a little confused . He is lumping things together that dont fit together . He is defending his atheism . He is not talking about religeon , he is talking about creationism and pseudo religeous fanatisism . The analagy with religeon as a virus is not realy true with most religeous people as most of them inherit their religeon from their parents . But maybe it is true with peopel who have found their "religeon" through lonlieyness or personal guilty consciences like prisoners , ex-junkies , born again christians and jehovas witnesses who become infected with easy answers .

What about what Jahvisions called the spirit of jesus , meaning the inborn will to be good people , the expression of wich many basicaly good people can only find in their religeous beliefs because this society gives no other outlet . Its not orientated in the direction of truthes , loving and careing its just intersted in profit . Its not neceseraly religeons that are bad , its the way that hyerachys missuse them for egoistic reasons like personal and political power and financial gain , wich is like fanning a fire wich can only end in fanatism and blind dogma .

Religeon is just another way to satisfy the human need to have morals and live in an ethical way , to grow up and become adults . part of the reasons why evolution evolves in a way to survive and not spiral down into self destructive anihilation . Yes i know that things are looking bad at the moment in the world and that many people are joining these end time religeous fanatic born again churches . Its just normal social movements , tides in human evolution . A sort of mental foxes and rabbits thing . A wave of science and enlightenment is followed by a wave of ignorance and religeous fanatisism .

People who indoctrinate their children are just doing the same as Dawkins is doing , fighting their own inner fears and uncertanty through indoctrinating their children , like jehovas witnesses , if they can convert someone it helps them to deny their secret doubts , the things that they dont realy believe in themselves . Defining "God" as some sort of supernatural super father figure , a sort of proxy god that they can blame their ignorance ,sinns and weak points on as being gods will . A sort of cosmic hero worship , putting your money on one card , one supreme answer , a supreme being , a super father who understands all the things that frighten you , all the things that you dont understand and cant explain .

Dawkins ideas are a reaction to his own inner fears and doubts , what he is doing is a lot like the things that he is trying to condem , The books title says it all , "The god delusion" , hes talking about and trying to deny his delusions .

The wikipedia report about Dawkins and his theorys is negative , and its comming from intelligent people and scientists not from religeous fanatics .

 

[buffachino]

When I say predeceasing, I mean all religions coming before and giving rise to the Judaeo-Christian faiths of the currant and recent eras and the Islamic offshoot of that same common ancestor. They anthropomorphise and personify astrological symbols such as the sun and the precession through the constellations and equinoxes as figures or events so as to both map their history and predict future recurrences of cosmic proceedings. This is also the basis upon which the thesis of life can be drawn and written as for the people of those cultures and the ones following them to understand and enact upon the ethics of perceived or enforced human morality.

That’s what I meant.

 

[ararat]

People who indoctrinate their children are just doing the same as Dawkins is doing , fighting their own inner fears and uncertanty through indoctrinating their children , like jehovas witnesses , if they can convert someone it helps them to deny their secret doubts , the things that they dont realy believe in themselves . Defining "God" as some sort of supernatural super father figure , a sort of proxy god that they can blame their ignorance ,sinns and weak points on as being gods will . A sort of cosmic hero worship , putting your money on one card , one supreme answer , a supreme being , a super father who understands all the things that frighten you , all the things that you dont understand and cant explain.

well ok I have to agree with you. but I'm not sure if he would start to indoctrinate his children. I mean he says that he thinks that it is not good to do that, and I believe he's not only talking about christianity but also atheism and everything connected. I'm not sure though..

I love xkcd
http://xkcd.com/90/ hahaha

 

[GOD]

Thanks buff , I understand what you have written about "personify astrological symbols such as the sun and the precession through the constellations and equinoxes as figures or events so as to both map their history and predict future recurrences of cosmic proceedings." but i still dont understand what those sekts , their development or their historys have to do with the silly pseudo "science / knowledge" of astrology ? Life has very much to do with the sun , the seasons as measurements of time and using the stars to guide people around the planet but thats astronomical . I dont see the conection between those religeons , their cource and their beliefs and astrology . As i read what you wrote in the post before i thought that you were refering to the Pharmacratic inquisition video or whatever its called ? I saw the first one and felt sick . I know that there is a new one that has been corrected but i just cant bring myself to watch it , yet . I still havent recovered from the first one , i think i have a sort of mental tilt , a personal aversion reaction . I do see conections between astrology and religeous fundamentalism though , the conection being that they are all bullshit .

Misery , I didnt mean that Dawkins was indoctrinating his children , i dont know if he has any , i`m sorry if i didnt make that clear . I meant that he is doing the same thing to himself and the public that some people do to when they indoctrinate their children and for the same reasons . Because "it helps them to deny their secret doubts , the things that they dont realy believe in themselves " .

I like the cartoon and the link .

 

[buffachino]

Well astrology is the study of the astronomical. It’s not a pseudo science of recent generations or even a mystic fanatic culture that is based around sectarian bogus doctrine.

The ancient cultures used the stars, sun, planets, the constellations and the passage through them according to the ages, celestial periods and the movement of the earth to mark the passage of time and give rise to the worship of the heavens through the anthropomorphised depictions of the stars and planets in gods or deities.
This is the basis for Jesus, or many other spiritual saviours being the depiction of the sun itself, the sun of god, light of the world, saviour of mankind in its conquest of the darkness; not the bi-humanoid son of god. This is also a correlation between all ancient cultures beliefs around the death and resurrection belief.
Yes you are correct in that the Pharmacratic inquisition does relate to and go over this in detail, but one does not need such a presentation to show them the obvious and inherent cosmic similarities between most ancient cultures in their depictions of the heavens.
And really GOD, how can you call the study of the stars and planets silly in any sense? Were the Mayans and Mesoamerican cultures stupid for their ability to plot dimensional time and occurrence from their study of the heavens, resulting in the long count calendar and much of their success in both spiritual and cultural advancement. I think you’re getting too caught up in the modern and defiantly corrupted study of this same (however diminished in significance and purpose) system, which much like all things that have had valorous and cosmicaly inclined roots, has been defiled in its contemporary application and demeanour.

peace.

 

[GOD]

I was realy enjoying your amazing literary skills again untill i got to the "how can you call the study of the stars and planets silly in any sense?" bit ..... I didnt , what i said is the undenyable fact that there is a difference between the science of ASTRONOMY and the stupid childish backward fantasy mentaly confused pseudo science of ASTROLOGY , = star signs hokus pokus , a false oracle , telling the future or talking obscure crap about peoples character . Find me an ASTROLOGER that has in the past realisticaly predicted the future ( and for fucks sake dont make yourself look stupid by saying NOSTRADAMUS ) , or one now that can tell us what is going to happen next year at 11 o`clock in the morning on the 17th of september to my son Gordon and i will believe in ASTROLOGY .

And the fucking mayans wiped themselves out with their spiritual and cultural advancement , believing that the spanish killers were their gods !!! What did they predict ? , and what has happened that they predicted ? . And the confused new age hippy fantasy interpretations of what their calender "means" and was "predicting" a la Terrance McKenna is absolute total mentaly ill bullshit . Terry was an internationaly well known LOONY who had verbal dihorea that no scientist or rational person took seriously when he talked about his confused personal theorys about rediculous things like the machine elves , the voynicht manuscript , timewave zero and the mayan calender .

 

[buffachino]

You’re confusing my meaning, and I’m not advocating any of these things at all, just pointing reference to the nature of their coalescence. I know allot of that hippy mystic bullshit is all tedious psychobabble in order to reinforce their own mindless positions and explanations of their small and otherworldly universe that they most likely sap from a larger collective mindset than from their own experience and exploration into the realities of hyperspace etcetera. They are just as reproached and benign as the larger religious community and establishment because they take easy answers, constrictive and evangelistic organization, and unexplored correlations as truth or meaning without investigating them further for themselves or considering the conceptual framework of systems which pervade true meaning.

No true predictions can ever be established, mystic, scientific or otherwise because nothing is pinpointed, finite or sequential other than a slight correlation in culminated experience of ordered material paradigm. This is the reason why neither the long count, Nostradamus, time wave zero, nor other predictive methods of understanding of past or future can be a reality in a constantly shifting material dimension. Everything is in an invariable state of present; time simply doesn’t exist and thus cannot be mapped or predicted according to any fleeting set assembly. When does a sequence or cycle truly begin? Who dictates that point, if one can be dictated? The truth is it can’t, and the only uses and predictions that can be made are fruitless and irrespective of their nature. Even if a similarity does appear, this is just a representation of the system and the comparison of it to your finite physical perception. It’s all subject to incidence.

All I was trying to establish in using the Mayans predictive power was their understanding of cyclic systems of their close cosmic neighbours, thus the movement of the planet respective to the stars and sun, not anything else but this. They by their means of exploitation of the anthropomorphised depiction of these occurrences was the flashpoint for their demise simply because of the power structure created in the society because of this fact; they were confused about the nature of their own beliefs other than what they were told from their elders and priests who through twisted spiritual mediums changed their worship of the sun and stars into one of immaterial omnipotent beings who ruled the cosmos through their divine intent; which during the Spanish conquest, they mistook the conquistadors for their saviours in the flesh.

And Terrance, to some extent was lost within the confines of his own mystical perceptions, yet this does not mean that any meaning or understanding cannot be attained from his words; one must shed the layers of monotheistic attitude and finite grasp of their own surroundings and understand and collaborate with the pervading systems which drive them onward into infinity. Just because he described things that exist in a hard to establish or restricted way does not mean that it was all bullshit, look past this haze of confusion and gain your own respective meaning from what he demonstrates.

I’m sorry if I am only angering and confusing you to some extent, but it seems pointless and irrespective to pass of a lot of potentially useful information through the understanding of their common systemic concepts, off as a simply untrue mystic fallacy. Most if not all of these things started with and still pertain a small degree of comparative truth within them, but only on a systemic and compartmental basis and should never be taken as a face value description of the reality in which you exist.

Peace.

 

[GOD]

You are not angering me , or confusing me . What uncle Terrance said that was true , was true , and other things he said that were bullshit were bullshit , the same goes for everyone . Astrology is bullshit .

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Find me an ASTROLOGER that has in the past realisticaly predicted the future ( and for fucks sake dont make yourself look stupid by saying NOSTRADAMUS ) , or one now that can tell us what is going to happen next year at 11 o`clock in the morning on the 17th of september to my son Gordon and i will believe in ASTROLOGY.

I'm willing to take up that challenge. But I can't say what will happen to your son (or maybe I can, depends), only how he will experience it and what his mood will be. And the birth data you provide should be accurate within 5 minutes, preferably accurate to the second. I don't do general (Sun sign) astrology, for that indeed is bogus.

 

[ararat]

maybe you should take another date. like next week or so, next year is a bit long

I think the only reason why astrology (the one which you can find in the newspaper.. no idea about other forms) works (a bit at least) is because of the self fulfilling prophecy phenomene.

 

[silv]

You are not angering me , or confusing me . What uncle Terrance said that was true , was true , and other things he said that were bullshit were bullshit , the same goes for everyone . Astrology is bullshit .

with the danger of dogma just around the corner i'll still agree with you, however it'd be awesome if astrology wasn't bullshit :E