Freedom of choice

[GOD]

I want you to talk about all aspects of abortion and contreception here . No holds bared . I want you to say what you think about every aspect of both subjects .

Is abortion freedom of choice ? Should it be controlöed ? Should there be limits on how many times a woman can have an abortion ? Is it missused as contreception ? What about freedom of choice for unborn kids ? What about freedom of choice for fathers ? Who should pay for it ? Should unwilling fathers have to pay for kids ? Who has the duty to use contreception ? Why ? What are your feelings ? What are your thoughts ? Are you satisfyed with the rights and dutys you have with both subjects at the moment ? Has a child of yours been aborted ? How did / do you feel ?

 

[st.bot.32]

Hmm. Will be interesting to see how psychonauts feel about this issue, let's be careful not to start a flame war I do think there are valid reasons to have an abortion, as well as very bad reasons. I can't give a black-and-white answer to the questions, because I don't think this is a black-and-white issue.

In Canada a major abortion activist was just awarded the country's highest honor, this has become a somewhat divisive act with three prior recipients of the award who are religious (pretty much catholics) actually returning their awards in protest. But it seems the majority of the country is accepting of it.

At risk of arguing ad hominem, I do find it ironic that quite frequently the people who make the decisions in this respect are males. I find it ironic that the largest "pro-life" demograph is frequently the against-sex-for-pleasure religious right, who are perfectly accepting of civilian casualties in the middle east and perfectly happy to send their kids off to alien battlefields to get blown up.

That being said I don't necessarily have a problem with pro-lifers, it is their choice to make, I do have a problem when they push their morals on others and try to turn their viewpoint into an unconditional blanket law.

I've never met a girl who found the decision easy to make. It frequently stays with them for a very long time. I personally find it much easier to accept as long as it is done in the first trimester (where often there are miscarriages, and the baby is only beginning to be developed). Once the baby starts to become more developed, I personally have a harder time accepting abortion for all but life-and-death circumstance.

As much as I might sound very pro-choice, I do see some creepy sides to the issue. Such as countries where parents are getting an abortion merely because their child is a girl, and not a boy. Sorta Gattaca styles.

All IMHO anyway.

 

[silv]

I've got quite the opinion on this, but let me take some time to properly explain it tomorrow!

 

[magickmumu]

I agree with st. both.32

I think abortion should be legal, because otherwise people will do illegal abortion. (cloth hanger style)

Where I live there are a lot of teen mom's. Girls of age 15/16 having kids.
In Most cases the fathers could not or don't want to take care of the kids.


My girlfriend and I use anti conception, so (thank god) we never had to abort a child.

I tbelieve the choice of abortion should be made by the mother, not the father.

 

[Jakobien]

This, The tragedy of the commons, is why abortion and anticonception should be legal and practised. I wholeheartedly support the ideas in this article, it was mindblowing!!

edit: the message comes down to: any population normally grows exponentially, which makes the earth's resources are running out, so for our human population it is impossible to live according to the wealth standards we've set for ourselves. The only solution is stop population growth.

 

[GOD]

WOT !!!!! Fuck around , ignore all the choices of how not to get pregnant and then murder babys because you were to dumb , thick or crass to take care . Doesnt that mean that you are saying women are not full , grown up adults . That they are to thick or to crass to take care of themselves . That they cant take their own responsibilitys .

"I couldnt be bothered to take care . I couldnt be bothered to fuck in the two weeks where i couldnt get pregnant , i had to do it when i could get pregnant . I couldnt be bothered to use contraceptives . I couldnt be bothered to go to the doctors within 12 days and take a pill to prevent the pregnancy . so now i want to murder my baby" !!!!!

And justifying avoidable mass murder with the fact that the planet is over populated is on the same level as saying that the hollocaust was mass contreception and a positive thing for the avoidable problems that the world has with over population .

Why dont we just nuke holland , we would get rid of 16 million posible unwanted pregnancy sources .

Freedom of choice is not getting pregnant in the first place , not being iresponsible and then murdering babys .

 

[Jakobien]

WOT !!!!! Fuck around , ignore all the choices of how not to get pregnant and then murder babys because you were to dumb , thick or crass to take care . Doesnt that mean that you are saying women are not full , grown up adults . That they are to thick or to crass to take care of themselves . That they cant take their own responsibilitys .

"I couldnt be bothered to take care . I couldnt be bothered to fuck in the two weeks where i couldnt get pregnant , i had to do it when i could get pregnant . I couldnt be bothered to use contraceptives . I couldnt be bothered to go to the doctors within 12 days and take a pill to prevent the pregnancy . so now i want to murder my baby" !!!!!
And justifying avoidable mass murder with the fact that the planet is over populated is on the same level as saying that the hollocaust was mass contreception and a positive thing for the avoidable problems that the world has with over population .

Why dont we just nuke holland , we would get rid of 16 million posible unwanted pregnancy sources .

Freedom of choice is not getting pregnant in the first place , not being iresponsible and then murdering babys .

Hahah, you're funny indeed. Of course anticonception is preferred (to say the least) over abortion. But there is no 100% guarantee for avoiding pregnancy unless you don't have sexual relations, and rape happens too, remember.

Edit: There is freedom of choice, but having a big family is quite ignorant IMHO...I try not to judge those people, if it makes them happy you know...

 

[st.bot.32]

"I couldnt be bothered to take care . I couldnt be bothered to fuck in the two weeks where i couldnt get pregnant , i had to do it when i could get pregnant . I couldnt be bothered to use contraceptives . I couldnt be bothered to go to the doctors within 12 days and take a pill to prevent the pregnancy . so now i want to murder my baby" !!!!!

I think a lot of what you are talking about here really is a lack of proper education on the subject, that is, abortion could be easily minimized if people knew what they were doing.

There are exceptions to all of the above too (besides the obvious ones of the mother's life being endangered, or the mother being raped, etc). Many women aren't capable of experiencing pleasure during that time period of a week or 2, they have severe cramps and headaches! Many women can't use contraceptives (it makes them depressed, suicidal, not to mention contraceptives can just stop working.. after a while a girl may just find herself menstruating again). Sex with a condom between close couples, while it does the job, is just not as deep as sex without, and many men have difficulty using a condom.

We could get into a deeper argument here about when a fetus can be considered an individual human, 12 days is ok? 24 days? (I fully admit, once a fetus is developed enough that it has a working brain and limbs, the lines do get a lot fuzzier for me)

 

[????????]

I think it all comes down to this: if the mother really doesn't have the means to sustain her child she should have the choice to not go ahead. A healthy and viable choice.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Until we reinstitute the glorious practice of sacrificing children to the gods, I think women should have the freedom to decide for themselves. If that involves killing a living organism, so be it. We have to kill organisms all the time in order to maneuver ourselves through this world. Killing an undeveloped and largely unconscious human foetus is in no way more cruel than killing a mosquito. A mosquito may ruin your night, and a foetus may ruin your life.

As far as responsibility goes, if any girl gets pregnant, the man should take responsibility for his action, even if it ruins his life. He has no right to demand an abortion from her.

 

[GOD]

" I mean if we were conscious, how could we do the things we do? I remember a moment on our road trip when I was enveloped in the beauty in Montana. I looked to my side, and saw a little kid ask his mother, " Mom what is this?", "It's just a bug", And then the little kid stepped on it, taking it's life! I was sick at the situation and told them to have some respect for other beings other than themselves/human beings. Now if that mother, or child, were conscious of how beautiful that bug really was, how could they take it's life? When one really investigates how perfect, and how vital the little bugs purpose in life was, they would be in tears at the beauty! People are ignorant to the beauty of other living organisms. If people only knew how perfect the moment they were living in they would have a hard time not crying. Now you tell me a fully conscious being could take another beings life. If you were fully conscious of how perfect that other being was, or you were conscious of what you were doing, then you could not do it. We are not conscious , and I would put money one that plants are more conscious than we are. If you observe a plants actions, you find only peace."

 

[Meduzz]

Does the ability to create new life also create the right to end it? Is it your "property"? The only thing that opposes this is the right to live... But if you can't give a good life to your child, is death better?

:question:

 

[BrainEater]

:arrow: The ability to create new life doesn't create life nor does it create the right to end life. But the ability to create new life and the will to create new life combined with love create new life.


"If you can't give a good life to your child, is death better?"


You mean killing your living child??? Or not even creating a child?? Or abortion???

I'd say death is always "better" from the perspective of "ego", but how can you say, that you can't give a good life to your child if that hasn't already happened??

I think if you are so far to kill your child simply because of the reason, that you can't give it a good life, then your lack of motivation to do something about that or your lack of possibilities is considerably big.


I think there have been said a lot of good things in this thread. Keep it up!


peace :weedman:

 

[random]

I don't know but, if you want to make an abortion, make it.. its your or their counsciousness that will be heavy, not mine.

It's that fact, that they did the abortion, that will be in their memory, emotionally, as long as they dont get alzeimer, until they die.
If that act don't disturb them all, then they don't give a fuck about life.

Personally, I think one should control itself to prevent this kind of decisions, of wether to make or not an abortion.
So take responsibility and use condoms or take the pills.

If you decide that you won't make an abortion, so then.. just welcome another turd to this world. Thunk!