Ergot psychoactive?

[petfles]

This discussion was at my attention the past couple of days:

http://www.entheogen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8998

It's a long read but very interesting, in short it seems someone has found and experimented with the old Kykeon
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kykeon) secret recipe. Or at least some forgotten psychonaut 'tool' found and used worldwide.

I'm no expert in this field but as i understand, maybe LSA substances are very well grounded in our western society, extracted form ergot and used in the "initiation ceremonies held every year for the cult of Demeter and Persephone" for 2000 years.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleusinian_Mysteries)

What are your opinions?

 

[Guest]

interesting reading, petfles! i've read the most of it, and it intriguing...why has the recipe been lost if it was to important ?
do psylocibe get along with hot and dry mediterranean climate ? perhaps in specific areas where it is more humid ? now, thinking about it, the temperature seems right if the humidity was high enough...
from what i've read about ergot, it seems too dangerous to mix it in the recipe. i think in southern france there was a problem with ergot in the bread and there was plenty of witch hunting, people with symptoms of st. anthony's fire...i don't know if ergot himself will cause a psychedelic journey...
but i would certainly break my spine laughing if mixing barley with some wheat infected with ergot would give instant LSD.

 

[petfles]

I don't know why it has been lost.

For me mushrooms were life changing, but not for most,
More people find peace in LSD,
Thousands of people tripping on ergot and maybe mushrooms can be some experience in the old days.
[edited]

 

[GOD]

I dont believe what i`m reading here , how can anyone be so idiotic as to play with their lives with pseudo information like this . There are at least 50 types of Ergot , who can identify wich one is wich ? , and who can identify wich grass it is growing on ? Without a full lab analysis of the contents of each sort of Ergot and studys to see if the contents are variable i would leave it alone if i were you .

The one that is suposed to have caused St, Anthonys fire many times all over europe was Claviceps Purpurea , the one that i think is mentioned as posssibly being useable as an entheogen in "Wasson, R. Gordon, Ruck, Carl, Hofmann, A., The Road to Eleusis: Unveiling the Secret of the Mysteries. Harcourt, Brace, Jovanovich, 1978" is Claviceps Paspali and is suposed to grow in the mediteranian region .

Personaly i think that with the amount of work done on Ergot and Ergot alkaloids by Sandoz and Albert Hofmann and others someone would have noticed if it were possible to make a SAFE cold water extract from Claviceps Purpurea or other types of Ergot .

Spice did a very good explanation about the lack of value of most "information" / background noise in the internet a few days ago in a thread here . If you can find it and read it it might make you a bit more cautious about believing what pseudo "cats" say about their unscientific subjective opinions .

I cant be bothered to read all of the bullshit/catshit 19 pages on the original thread or to look up any information at the moment , i`ve been very depressed for the last week or so because a friend of mine has just died . As soon as i feel a bit better i will have a read and let you know what i can find .

This is worth reading :- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergot

As Hendrix said " You cant believe everything you see and hear can you......."

 

[petfles]

Take care,
you are right this is nonsense

 

[Guest]

i don't understand much of chemistry, but why would this guy make this up ? perhaps there are more ergots than the types that we already know. but i have to agree with god, it is a very dangerous and hard-to-belive experiment.
in the wiki article you posted, there was some reference in finding ergot alkaloids in the stomach of early man, like they had drunk a potion. they wouldn't drink it if it would kill them, so i am a bit confused and i don't know what to make out of this. perhaps there is a simple and crude way to do a simple water extraction ?
all in all, this is far too dangerous to someone just soak some infected rye in cold water and then drinking it let's not confuse pioneering with dumbness.

edit: i am sorry for your friend, GOD. my sincere sympathy.

 

[DevXavier]

Way too risky.

Yet interesting.

 

[GOD]

The first recorded outbreak of Ergotism that i can find was in 994 , the last was in 1927 . These outbreaks ocured in most of the countrys in europe . In 1630 it was proved that Ergot was responsible by doing teste on chickens . Each sort of Ergot contains different chemicals /alkaloids wich is geneticaly controled , some contain no alkaloids , others one and others many . The % of alkaloids in each individual type in relation to each other is the same , BUT the amount of chemicals in each sort strongly depends on the sort of grass that it grows on and the growing conditions . Ergotoxin got its name because of its high toxicity . It took scientists more than 100 years to isolate the alkaloids from each other .

Taken from "Die Mutterkorn alkaloide" Albert Hofmann 1964 , updated in june 2000 .

As i said Albert Hofmann has said that it might / should be possible to make an hallucinogenic cold water extract from Claviceps Paspali . I think that it is a very interesting subject BUT without knowing exactly wich type of ergot and wich type of grass it is growing on and / or a lab analysis it would be very , very stupid and probably suicidal to try to use ergot as an hallucinogen .

Thanks Daytripper .