Epiphanies and the like...

[cockknocker]

Now, I've only had three experiences on psychedelics - once on ayahuasca, mescaline and mushrooms. Obviously they weren't on top level doses, and I'm by no means an experienced tripper, but I was just wondering something.

It may seem like a bit of a stupid question, but how do you 'get' spiritual experiences and epiphanies while on psychs?

On each of my trips, I've never really experienced any feelings of connection to higher powers or a oneness with the universe, as happens in the many trip reports I've read and heard.

Are experiences such as this only available with high doseage trips, or do they come with the 'right mindset'. Each time I've gone into a trip, it hasn't been in anticipation of experiencing enlightenment, but to just get fucked. Not so much of a Timothy Leary, more of a Hunter S. Thompson.

I'm guessing that enlightenment doesn't just come from wishing it, and I'm not just tripping to experience it, I'm tripping to experiement with new, crazy hallucinogenics.

Maybe it is my intention to trip thats withholding mystical experiences, and maybe they'll come with time, but it just seems to me that tripping isn't a hugely mind-expanding spiritual thing, just something that gets you high.

I'm not actively seeking spiritual moments, but they are part of what attracted me to tripping, so if anyone remembers what it's like to be a novice in the world of trippin, could you give me some advice?

Cheers

 

[ararat]

I'll keep it short because I'm about to go to sleep: higher dose.
also, don't start to seek for the mystical moments, you won't see the forest for the trees.

 

[Affirmatory]

You've only had three trips. My first 5 or so were just paddling in the waters of psychedelia. Because they were low dose. It is a good idea to start at a low dose and work your way up. Most people start at a low dose and then write the experience off as just a drug that scrambles your mind. At low doses it does just scramble the mind. I found that at low doses, your ego has a long hard battle with the drug, and wins, resulting in strengthening of the ego and all the consequences that go along with that, which is, in my opinion, the opposite of what you are trying to do with psychedelics. Most experienced people recommend high doses. Is there anyone who doesn't? (out of interest?)

Don't try to force the mystical upon yourself. Don't try to make something of nothing and over-interpret trips. A high dose is mystical enough in itself.


I think BananaPancake puts it very well

 

[Psychoid]

take a higher dosage, alone, in a good set and setting (=quiet), and don't look too hard for spiritual experiences and epiphanies, they will come by if you keep a good state of mind. Trying to force it makes it not happen.

 

[Nomada]

Only dynamic dedicated work can eventually allow any sudden jump of conscious transformation I believe--the witnessed and ruminated tearing of bored structures and habits. If you desire your own open process and controlled plasticity, dedicate your breaths to it; every spare moment.

Higher doses by themselves will do nothing or the opposite for a closed self or vandalized hedonism. The best part of being high is being sober.

And of course, as it has been pointed above one must be careful with the dangers of a closed race after the token of yourself and it's tunnel vision syndrome. There's a thin line between focused and inattention for novelty. One is entangled on spherical tourism.

Every moment of clarity is not a separate thing from the self, it's an expression of her.

 

[deadflagblues]

A few months ago i had an epiphany concerning psychedelic epiphanies. i had this epiphany while completely sober and it hit me pretty good. i almost had a mushroom realization yawn hahah.( i dont know if this happens to anyone else but when i realize something on psylocibin i yawn ) but anyways i realized that the ultimate recognition of truth is something you have to do without the aid of psychoactive substances. they can point you in the right direction and teach you so much, but eventually, you have to do it on your own if you want to ascend to that next level. now dont get me wrong, i am in no way saying that ive come close to being able to do so. im just saying that in the end, you need to have faith in yourself and your ability to accept these gutwrenching revelations while your not floating in space somewhere

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

i almost had a mushroom realization yawn hahah.( i dont know if this happens to anyone else but when i realize something on psylocibin i yawn )

I certainly yawn a lot during mushroom trips. I didn't understand at first that this is a typical effect of psilocybin. I had not experienced it during my former experiments with acid, so at first I thought I had not slept enough and was sleepy, but soon realized I was wide awake. :shock:

To get a significantly spiritual, mystical or numinous experience, you really need to take a strong dose, like several cups of ayahuasca, 5 to 10 grams of properly dried cubensis mushrooms, or between 300 and 500 ug of LSD.

For such dosages one must prepare the experience very well, and appoint a trusted friend to be the sitter, at least the first time you embark on such a journey. Select ambient, meditative, classical, sacred and dynamic music, preferably instrumental, and let the sitter play these for you during the trip. Agree to stay inside for the first few hours of the trip, with your eyes closed or with the lights off, and in a reclining position. When you feel like the peak of the trip is over, let the sitter take you to a natural environment, preferably with a lake or river (and even better: where you can take a swim).

The presence of a sitter allows you to focus all your attention on the inner process. The sitter should be mostly quiet, not interfering with your experience, just being there to get you something to drink when you ask for it, and assure you that everything is going well. Preferably the sitter should be experienced, but mutual trust is more important. Explain clearly to the sitter what your intention is, and what you're expecting of him or her.

 

[Forkbender]

It may seem like a bit of a stupid question, but how do you 'get' spiritual experiences and epiphanies while on psychs?

They just happen, you don't have to do anything but accept that it is happening. The intention should be in line with this, so if you intend to use the psychedelic for any other purpose, you will drift away from it. Keep an open mind that anything can happen, even the worst of possible hells, don't fight it, embrace it.

You asking the question here is already a big step into the process and it will come sooner or later.

If you want to get really technical, you could say that you should look out that set and setting are good, that you take into account all the tips you read here and there, but ultimately it boils down to being open to the experience and they will happen to you.

You cannot force it. If you force it, you just fool yourself.

 

[Ganesha]

High! Long time no see!

I don't agree with Caduceus' point about the strength of the dose. It should, of course, be sufficient, but I also think that at some point you just have to use your senses better. This connects with Forkbender's point: he obviously needs a high dose to be overwhelmed by the experience to interpret it as spiritual, but in fact, a lower dose can be really interesting and make you aware of a lot more subtle effects that are blasted out at higher ranges. I think this is what McKenna meant when he said that a trip is like going out to fish on the ocean, catching the biggest fish you possibly can. I think that in the subtle auto-psychoanalytical part of the trip you can find the biggest fish. Finding God behind self-loathing is an immense step in personal development. I had this both on a low dose of mushrooms and a medium dose of lsd (around 200 mics).

 

[Forkbender]

This connects with Forkbender's point: he obviously needs a high dose to be overwhelmed by the experience to interpret it as spiritual,

Where do you get this from?

but in fact, a lower dose can be really interesting and make you aware of a lot more subtle effects that are blasted out at higher ranges. I think this is what McKenna meant when he said that a trip is like going out to fish on the ocean, catching the biggest fish you possibly can. I think that in the subtle auto-psychoanalytical part of the trip you can find the biggest fish. Finding God behind self-loathing is an immense step in personal development. I had this both on a low dose of mushrooms and a medium dose of lsd (around 200 mics).

I agree that a low to medium dose can really be interesting and help you understand some of the subtle patterns in your life

 

[Ganesha]

Where do you get this from?

here:

They just happen, you don't have to do anything but accept that it is happening.

Sometimes an active mind can trigger immense benefits. Passivity is good for observation, but to connect it with action, a proper intention and integral awareness is necessary.

 

[Forkbender]

^ I sort of get what you mean, but one must be warned that it isn't about the I forming an intention or setting out the road for God to fit into. It may be helpful to use the intention if you have found that God within you to blast through personal pain, feelings of rejection, etc.

 

[Ganesha]

Yes, it is an advanced technique, but it really helps in shaping yourself, more than the complete ego-explosions that just make you go WOW and AMAZING! and W00T!! and forget what it was all about when you are sober again. I guess a willingness to learn is key in any trip. It will help you stay on top and learn from you mistakes. A lower dose is sometimes helpful to navigate the normal waters of day to day life.

 

[Forkbender]

I have a great memory 8)
And my bucketfulls of imagination help me put this memory into practice in my life.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

It should, of course, be sufficient, but I also think that at some point you just have to use your senses better.

Hi Ganesha! I think it's a matter of shutting off the senses, in order to experience the transcendent. Of course you can have all kinds of lofty thoughts and blissful experiences on lower doses, but if you want "feelings of connection to higher powers or a oneness with the universe" without forcing it with conceptual notions gained from new age websites or religious scriptures, if you really want to experience it directly, unequivocally, overwhelmingly, if you want an epiphany, I think one needs to ingest something way above the dosage for treshhold effects.

but in fact, a lower dose can be really interesting and make you aware of a lot more subtle effects that are blasted out at higher ranges.

The effects of a low dose are interesting, but you really don't miss out on anything when you blast through it all into the transpersonal levels or experiencing the Metacosmic Void.

I think this is what McKenna meant when he said that a trip is like going out to fish on the ocean, catching the biggest fish you possibly can.

This metaphor is faulty, because tripping has nothing to do with catching fish, but with cleansing or transforming the boat. You don't have to bring anything back from the experience, except your illuminated self. Even if you don't quite remember your encounter with "God" afterwards, you'll never be the same.

I think that in the subtle auto-psychoanalytical part of the trip you can find the biggest fish.

Psychoanalysts who started experimenting with psychedelic compounds in the fifties, sixties and early seventies didn't arrive at the same conclusion. They realized that low and medium dosages gave very little results, as opposed to the higher dosages.

Experiencing cosmic unity is very beneficial in the treatment of pain and anxiety in terminal cancer patients. In that field too psychologists arrived at dosages of 300 to 500 ug. Charles Grof recently commented that the government had allowed them to give psilocybin to terminal cancer patients, but at a dosage that they themselves considered too low. When asked how much the permitted dosage would be when taken in the form of dried mushrooms, he answered approximately 3 grams. So again, for deep spiritual experiences the experts recommend dosages like the ones I mentioned, and they invariably recommend internalized trips, i.e. with eyes closed or in a dark room.

 

[Ganesha]

Hi Ganesha! I think it's a matter of shutting off the senses, in order to experience the transcendent. Of course you can have all kinds of lofty thoughts and blissful experiences on lower doses, but if you want "feelings of connection to higher powers or a oneness with the universe" without forcing it with conceptual notions gained from new age websites or religious scriptures, if you really want to experience it directly, unequivocally, overwhelmingly, if you want an epiphany, I think one needs to ingest something way above the dosage for treshhold effects.

I didn't of course mean the physical senses. Transcendental stuff is cool, but you need to bring it to your life, noone will do that for you. You can have a blissful experience, but if you don't cahnge your perspective, you don't change yourself, you don't become a better person.

The effects of a low dose are interesting, but you really don't miss out on anything when you blast through it all into the transpersonal levels or experiencing the Metacosmic Void.

I disagree. You don't miss anything when you are in the 'Metacosmic Void', but you don't notice the subtleties of an entheogen unless you are very experienced. For example, on a low dose of lsd you will notice the way it changes your mind without shutting it off, it is like turning the volumebutton slowly down instead of hitting mute. This can be really helpful in you learning how to stop the chattering in your mind, because you have made the trip to the other side with full consciousness, while on a high dose, it goes so fast you don't easily remember. A lower dose helps you zoom into the experience and is more helpful for meditative trips. It is hard to meditate in the rollercoaster.

This metaphor is faulty, because tripping has nothing to do with catching fish, but with cleansing or transforming the boat. You don't have to bring anything back from the experience, except your illuminated self. Even if you don't quite remember your encounter with "God" afterwards, you'll never be the same.

Call it what you like, but people return to old habits continually. I've seen it in advanced trippers who had their share of psychedelic journeys. Doesn't mean that it is bad or something, but people decide to change themselves or they don't.

Psychoanalysts who started experimenting with psychedelic compounds in the fifties, sixties and early seventies didn't arrive at the same conclusion. They realized that low and medium dosages gave very little results, as opposed to the higher dosages.

Initially, yes. To blast through trauma and melt low self esteem, a high dose is preferable. To learn to live what you have discovered on high doses, a low dose can be a good technique, at least it is in my case and because it helps me, I really don't care what those experimenting psychoanalysts did fourty years ago and what they fought was good.

Experiencing cosmic unity is very beneficial in the treatment of pain and anxiety in terminal cancer patients. In that field too psychologists arrived at dosages of 300 to 500 ug. Charles Grof recently commented that the government had allowed them to give psilocybin to terminal cancer patients, but at a dosage that they themselves considered too low. When asked how much the permitted dosage would be when taken in the form of dried mushrooms, he answered approximately 3 grams. So again, for deep spiritual experiences the experts recommend dosages like the ones I mentioned, and they invariably recommend internalized trips, i.e. with eyes closed or in a dark room.

Yes, again initially, for the people who have never tripped or have little experience. What I mean with using the senses better is precisely this: get the effects from a substance and amplify them with your brain, resonate with the substance, so you can adapt your brain so that you know how it is like to be on a psychedelic when not too far gone. Dive into the experience to see how much of it is your own will and how much of it is chemical processes. How do they relate? Can we ultimately make sense of it all? Lower doses can be challenging and are not for the beginner, although it is often recommended. Then again, if they plan on taking this as a way to escape, i.e. in public or in a non-safe environment, it is better to stay low, to prevent physical harm. If the setting is right, I advice a beginner to take a high dose with a sitter, but an experienced tripper to not only take high doses, but experiment with it and get to known yourself. If sober life is A and enlightened perspective is Z, a lower dose will help you start to move to B, C, D, etc. It shows you the obstacles you make yourself and what you can do to change it.

This, of course, also happens on a higher dose, but sometimes you forget that everything is reflected in the other modes of being. An epiphany needs to be carried down in order for it to be realized in action.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Yes, I certainly agree the lower dosages have lots to offer as well, and most of my LSD experiences have been in the lower to medium range. The first time I took acid it was just a fourth of a blotter, but it was a day of revelation. But that was me in that phase of my life, and cockknocker seemed to have difficulties attaining this sense of 'amazement'. For the rest, I'm all for low dosages.