DMT extraction tek: help improving

[HeartCore]

Hey all,

Saturday in a week, I'm going to demonstrate an extraction to a few members here. I will use the opportunity to optimize the tek i put here (there are some steps that will benefit some changes):

http://psilocyber.awardspace.com/index. ... 2&Itemid=2

When done, it will be hosted on a stable host.

So I would love input from yall on the current tek, what's clear, whats not etc..

Cheers
HC

 

[WaseFraKa]

it will not improve the quantity but quality: don't use naphta, it leaves residue when you evaporate it. Use petroleum ether or other, it is also easily obtainable.

 

[amoak]

it will not improve the quantity but quality: don't use naphta, it leaves residue when you evaporate it. Use petroleum ether or other, it is also easily obtainable.

Petroleum ether = Naphta

Napht is Petroleum ether too

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/faq ... ents.shtml

 

[HeartCore]

it will not improve the quantity but quality: don't use naphta, it leaves residue when you evaporate it. Use petroleum ether or other, it is also easily obtainable.

the naptha I'm using seems pretty clean but I'm open for suggestions

Looking for sources in Holland for this solvent:

Xylene

 

[Rutger]

Xylene will be difficult to obtain in Holland. When I see the method you use for the extraction there should not be any problem with the residue in the solvent. You do an cristailsation so you can discard of the solvent. Only a very small amount of the solvent really evaporates and leaves a very tiny residue.

If you would just let all the napta evaporate then you could have some residue that is left, normally in these kind of solvents is very low amount. Is there any information on the naptha you got (zippo fluid ???) ?

The question is what would you like to improve the total yield or the purity of your product. It think the first part is very solid. You extract probably almost all the alkaloids out with the water extraction. Then to get it in the solvent you use at least 3 times an extraction with naptha wich is normally enough but if you really want to have the last few percent you could do more extractions with the solvent but normally that is a waste of time.

When you do the last step with the recristallisation you could improve the proces by using just as much warm solvent as needed for your spice to dissolve. Then you filtrate it (or as you do decant it, filtration is normally a bit better and easier but you need to make sure that the filter is heated otherwise the spice might already precipitate on the filter and this is something you do not want ).

When this is finished you have a solution where your spice is dissolved at a hig temperature but at low temperature it cannot dissolve. Now you only have to cool it in an ice bath (freezer is also fine) after some time nice cristals should be forming. To get this process started you can scratch the bottom of the erlemeyer with a RVS spoon. This will help to get the cristalisation going.

Its all explained here in Dutch :

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herkristallisatie

If you need any help optimizing your extraction you could also PM me or sent an email.



This means you dissolve you spice into warm solvent just as much as needed for all of it to dissolve. Then you filter it when its still warm. This way you get everything that does not dissolve in naptha out (water or other salts etc.). You collect the

 

[HeartCore]

Rutger thanks for your detailed reply, much appreciate it!

Xylene -> will forget about that. Using Zippo btw.

The question is what would you like to improve the total yield or the purity of your product. It think the first part is very solid.

Thats what I think, but I found an interesting few recent threads on mycotopia where there is debate about an after extraction with a heavy base which seems to increase the yield. Not dramatically but enough for a few experienced guys overthere, to repeat the experiment and so far it looks promising. I'm still no chemist but there is some debate about the neccessity of an acid step either. I'm going to try that tek on some leftover bark I kept in the freezer for, as I understand now, this reason

I agree with the extra naptha pulls, they make no sense, I tried that also a couple of times.

As for quality, a filter setup as you describe sounds like a good idea. What kind of filter that is easy to obtain in the Netherlands would you recommend?

I'm going to solve the yellowish color with next extact, someone told me that this is because both the base and naptha where hot and I should do a defat before basidification. For defat, usually xykene is used but since thats hard to find here, do you think naptha would do the trick also?

Recrystallisation is much clearer now thanks

I will update this thread with results next saturday.

 

[DevXavier]

You could consider getting very pure petroleum ether and not the shop quality.

But it would steep your costs a lot.

 

[HeartCore]

You could consider getting very pure petroleum ether and not the shop quality.

But it would steep your costs a lot.

Main question is, will naptha defat (almost) as good as xylene. As for purity, I'm planning to get a distill installation so that should take care of impurities

 

[DevXavier]

Xylene will probably work better. Xylene however is marked a dangerous chemical. Consider it virtually impossible to get your hands on some, it is controlled by the bloody EU.

Then again petroleum ether does the trick, doesn't it? I reckon the yield differences/quality will only marginally improve.

 

[phalaris]

Xylene will probably work better.

It will defat better than naphta, but that is an annoyance after the extracting phase where one tries to collect the crystals; the alkaloids stay in solution upon cooling.

The solution to this solute (pun intended) is to use both solvents in sequence.

..that said

The most difficult part of the whole process is not what solvents to use, but how to get the plant material to small particles , and still get a crystal clear filtrate. Good practical filtration techniques are crucial to a rewarding yield.

Until I find a better filtrator like a wine-plate-filter I'll wait with a next extraction.

 

[HeartCore]

The most difficult part of the whole process is not what solvents to use, but how to get the plant material to small particles , and still get a crystal clear filtrate. Good practical filtration techniques are crucial to a rewarding yield.

I dont think filtration is needed at all with mimosa extractions and I still get very rewarding yields.

Let me clarify the opening post, I was looking for info to improve the tek so people who try it actually succeed instead of ending up with erupting Erlenmeyer flasks

But I'm starting to become curious about filtration. The way I picture it, with Mimosa, if you defat in advance, the end product will be very clean.

 

[DevXavier]

lol Heartcore.

The erupting Erlenmeijer was not my fault! Well, it kind of was...sort.

Anyway, I tried the extraction anyway. It is pretty easy to do, but I am too clumsy to succeed in such matters without proper face-to-face explanation.

 

[HeartCore]

And besides that, it will be fun to meet

 

[DevXavier]

Yeah, looking forward to meeting

 

[Kwarkfanaat]

HeartCore, I ain't a chemist.. just getting more interested in extraction methods. And I just want to say:

Utterly much respect for your job on the Elf Spice extraction! :shock: 8) 8)

 

[HeartCore]

Thanks man, its just been a dream being able to smoke DMT for 15 years, impossible for me to find all this time. And then, it just hasppened on my way. I have a lot of respect for PK effect and Marsofold to name two, who developed the tek I'm using

 

[HeartCore]

Another question pops up:

100ml naptha can hold a maximum of 1 gram DMT

Does this mean that:

100ml water can hold a maximum of 1 gram DMT

And what would happen if:

I extract 1.8 grams of DMT into 3 liters of water, then boil that down to 150ml, then add my base, bringing it back to 200ml? Would it hurt the yield?

Ofcourse I could try but I dont like to throw away spice

 

[Guest]

Ofcourse I could try but I dont like to throw away spice

Well obiously not

But I think if you did, you should use demineralised water, it can contain more other stuff then normal water with minerals.
I use it for my bubbles :mrgreen:

And I think if you would boil that much down it would result in less yield, but then again, I ain't a chemist.
In theory if the water could contain as much dmt as naptha it wouldn't...

 

[HeartCore]

I'm an idiot.... I was thinking things over at work, in my head without really thinking... the containers I use can hold 400ml of water and then still have room for the base and the naptha so I should really be ok. I dont know what I was thinking exactly hehe

O and yes I use demineralised water, supposedly its not really needed but I figured it couldnt hurt either and its not expensive.

And I think if you would boil that much down it would result in less yield, but then again, I ain't a chemist.
In theory if the water could contain as much dmt as naptha it wouldn't...

Yes thats what I was thinking. But while typing this I thnk I just found the answer: The DMT will still be in the liquid but not dissolved. Its like what happens if you start to evaporate naptha with DMT in it: the naptha will let go of the DMT. It makes sense now I think of it. Its like adding more sugar to a cup of tea, than the tea can actually hold, it will build up and not dissolve anymore.

No Im not a chemist either

 

[Guest]

Ohw well, you don't need to be a chemist to think straight