CM, and forkbender.

[IJesusChrist]

Hi you two, I respect both of you the most on this forum, however... I seem to miss something from you:

Your trips.

I have never read or seen anything about your personal trips. I know one of you has children, so I'd expect you not to be tripping often, but I would really enjoy hearing from you on your own experiences.

 

[Forkbender]

I stopped writing tripreports about a year and a half ago, but am currently writing one. It isn't finished by far, but I had a lot to cover. 8)

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Hello sir, the respect is mutual. I just couldn't find a way to express it yet.

I also find it hard to write trip reports and for a while felt that the intention not to write them was conducive for the trips themselves (because I wouldn't care about wanting to remember things or write things down), but I did write some. About two years ago I wrote a lengthy description of my experience with Datura tea and 3 very potent blotters (an event from way back in 1993).

Then in 2006 I wrote one describing my experience with ayahuasca.

I've recorded (before I had ever heard of YouTube or MySpace) an infrared video of my first experiment with 6 grams of dried cubensis in silent darkness. I've written about later experiences with mushrooms, but not written trip reports about them, though I always wrote down the dosage and time of ingestion. I think I wrote quite a bit about my experience with 8 grams, in 2007. That was the session I recalled recently, in the context of Stan Grof's descriptions of ego-death and rebirth.

I also recorded one of my first attempts at smoking DMT, and wrote a little about it. I've written about subsequent experimentations as well. I've also written a lenghty description of my last failed attempt.

I wrote a bit about my first experiment with Iboga, I think this was in 2008.

A recent experiment with approximately 150mcg of acid was decribed on the Dutch part of this forum. I purposefully decided to write this in Dutch only, because I feel a more personal connection with the Dutch psychonauts, having met most of them at least once.

The reasons why I don't write lengthy trip reports is that I don't want to go into my trips with the attitude of a reporter. Besides, what I experience is mostly ineffable anyway, or related to very personal issues like physical pain, intimate relationships, the divorce, my children, inner conflicts about work and love, etc.

Regarding the frequency of my tripping, in 2007 and 2008 it must have been once every two months, usually mushrooms. I had a mescaline experience in November 2008, but it was one of those very personal experiences, related to my children and my girlfriend at the time. I did write a bit about the general effects, but not much. A week or so later I ate mushrooms for a Dutch TV program (it's online if you look for it). And aside from some experiments with Amanita, MDMA and visiting the treshold mandala-level on DMT, that was the last trip I had until a couple of weeks ago (the three blotters).

Currently arrangements are being made for experiences that will surpass anything I've experienced before. For years I felt confused about certain aspects of the psychedelic experience, even though I read so many books and articles about them. This confusion discouraged me from taking these substances more frequently, I kind of lost interest, although intuitively I knew they had something very special to offer. Another significant factor that discouraged me from tripping more frequently was that I experienced intense chronic pain throughout 2007-2008 (which fortunately ended around Christmas) that very much dominated and thus spoiled my trips. This past half a year I've been very busy with my two jobs and other projects and duties, as well as spending more time with my children etc.

Oh, that reminds me: I also wrote reports of my two experiences in a floatation tank recently.

I seriously feel that now that I've read LSD Psychotherapy and Psychology of the Future I understand why my trips so far have been the way they were, why I've seen and experienced the things in that particular way. I now have a theoretical framework that was not provided to me by popular authors like McKenna, Strassman etc., nor by any of the forum members, and which I couldn't figure out myself. I feel more confident now to up the dose, and assist others in similar experiences.

 

[Forkbender]

If you want to read my first ayahuasca experience: it is here.

That was my second psychedelic experience, and it was life-changing.

@CM:
Do we really need a theoretical framework to understand/make sense of our trips? How is that different from thumbing the bible or the Gita?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Do we really need a theoretical framework to understand/make sense of our trips?

I needed one. Not just to make sense of my trips, but to make sense of everything.

The difference between the Bible & Gita on the one hand, and the conclusions from decades of modern consciousness research involving LSD, mescaline and psilocybine should be obvious. I've already cited Grof's at length in recent weeks. Those citations, and their relevance to all kinds of issues brought up my forum members (bad trips, visions of beings, the experience of a (nuclear) disaster, schizophrenia, psychosis, depression, suicidal tendencies, flashbacks), should be sufficient to illustrate their unique value.

 

[Forkbender]

^A good christian would probably be able to come up with a few helpful bibleverses in those cases.

I think tripping is like sailing a boat. You need to learn a few basics before you can navigate to where you want to go. But you cannot learn this from a book, you need someone to show it to you or find out for yourself. Once you got 'the rules' (which are unwritten, because it is just the nature of how things go), you can navigate more freely. Other people can help you find this theoretical framework, but too often it becomes an obstacle instead of a tool. Ultimately you will have to navigate the seas of awareness without following a map, just to be able to explore, trusting your senses to tell you where you need to go in order to go where you want.

 

[Forkbender]

Just wanted to say that I love disagreeing with CM. We seem to emphasize different qualities of the eternal Dao.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I think tripping is like sailing a boat.

Yes, I agree, but consider how many ships got wrecked before accurate maps of the world were created? It's interesting in this context that Grof doesn't usually refer to his ideas as a theoretical framework, but as an "extended cartography of the psyche". His theory consists of descriptions of these different overlapping but distinct realms: postnatal biographical memories, the four positive and negative perinatal matrices, the transpersonal domain, as well as the archetypal and the numinous. He does this in a way that unites mystical insights from the books you mentioned with insights from repeated administration of psychedelic substances and the practice of various other methods (drumming, breathwork, chanting etc.), as well as insights from modern science (quantum physics) and fringe sciences like astrology. I'm confident that by knowing such an extended and more detailed map of the psyche (and world), one can avoid certain typical pitfalls of psychedelic experimentation, including ego-inflation, confusion about extraterrestials and gnomes, flashbacks or other prolonged reactions. For myself, it simply assured me that these states, including the really weird ones, have tremendous healing qualities.

You need to learn a few basics before you can navigate to where you want to go. But you cannot learn this from a book, you need someone to show it to you or find out for yourself.

I find "you cannot learn this from a book" a bit of a cliche, because obviously those who read these books have the experiences as well. It's the synergy of reading and experiencing that I find so very useful.

 

[Forkbender]

Consider how many ships got wrecked after accurate maps of the world were created. Books can be misinterpreted, it is a lot harder to misinterpret a feeling you experience. The synergy between reading and experiencing is good, but not the be all and end all of it. There is also a danger: that you program yourself by reading something and reinforce that programming by finding evidence for it while tripping. Now, if the program isn't good, there's going to be problems. Perhaps the program you mentioned is good, but I think you need to remain sceptical as well. Every program has some details that don't fit in. They may be very subtle, but they become apparent over time.

 

[IJesusChrist]

You are both right.

You do not base your anchor on a book, nor should you go sailing without an anchor from reading. I am not a shaman, and neither are you two, so I would always advise reading, as well as talking to others about trips.

A book that has helped me get through my ups and downs was a god send, I really needed it. It really didn't pertain to trips or anything, but was directly related to how we develope.

I will not be taking ayahuasca anytime soon, thanks to your report Fork, I would definitely not be able to handle it. Your report was wonderful, but I am not in the condition for that kind of thought at the moment

I learned ALOT about both of you, just from reading 1 report from each, thanks alot. Now I feel like I can connect with you two more.