Call for Support! Private TOR network needs donated relays.

[v16]

As many of you know anonymity and secure communication is essential to many in the psychonaut community. The public TOR network http://www.torproject.org/ is to date the most best overall method for anonymous online browsing, however using this network can be challenging as it is currently over-utilized. As anyone how has used it knows, accessing websites through the network can be a painful process.

There is currently a project underway to create a private TOR network that would only provide access to services hosted within the private network. This is different from the public TOR network, in that the private network will not provide access to the WWW. The goal being to provide safety to both the user and provider of services, while ensure an efficient online experience.

We are currently looking for donations of server time. If you have a dedicated server or a VPS (virtual private server) account you wouldn't mind donating some time and bandwidth on contact me via PM. Currently we are looking to establish a 15 node network for testing purposes.

 

[mrvitorsky]

hummm this sounds very suspicious, like why arent you asking at the tor forums or some sort of coding forum. I currently relay traffic, if ever user just relayed traffic it would work.

 

[Bastiaan]

Doesn't seem suspiciuos to me.. I think psychonaut is, like mentioned, (one of) the right place(s) for such a post!
Too bad I need all the bandwith I can get atm

 

[v16]

I should stress the point that this network will not be open to the WWW. People using it will not be able to browse any old website. In fact, they will only be able to reach material hosted within the network. The goal is that eventually sites with material as discussed on this site and others could be hosted within the private network, with the ultimate goal of ensuring free speech.

Yes, this can be done with the public network. However, the public network has become overloaded as its popularity has out paced its infasturcture growth. (and a few other reasons, which are very detailed) I fear any network that makes anonymous browsing of the larger web its primary goal will find itself quickly overloaded. We are trying to address the speed problems by only providing access to a subset of sites.

Another way to think about what we are trying to do is to create an anonymous darknet that is secure, relativily fast, free to join, and easy to access.

 

[restin]

if it is not open to the www how should people from outside get access to our site?

 

[multavisi]

As described above, this is a not a proper use of the TOR network. You should perhaps look at Freenet (http://freenetproject.org/) for this kind of usage.

I've been running TOR for a long time and whould not participate in this setup. TOR's anonimity already is limited and narrowing it down would not make that any better.
Then again, maybe I don't understand what you mean. Perhaps you could elaborate?

Regards

 

[v16]

@mrvitorsky the solution to the speed problem in the public TOR is not just to make everyone a relay. Not every user would make a good relay, (more crappy relays would just slow down the network more) and even if you did make everyone who was a good candidate be a node, it would just then make the number of exit nodes the bottleneck. See below for more problem with public exit nodes...they are one of the biggest weaknesses of the public TOR.

@Restin TOR allows access to hidden services. It is a way of hosting material through a TOR network. Exit nodes (the way people access the larger internet) are not required to access hidden services.

@multavisi Again, this is not going to be run on the public network. A TOR network is actually very secure when run in a closed (no exit nodes) fashion. in fact MORE secure than one run with exit nodes. Most of the insecurities of a TOR network come from traffic analysis, corrupt exit nodes, or applications running in your browser that leak personal information.

By running a network with no exit nodes you remove the possibility for corrupt nodes completely. It also becomes much harder to do traffic analysis as there is no way to correlated incoming traffic with exiting traffic. Someone watching you would only know that you looked at SOMETHING within the TOR network.

To say this is not what TOR was designed for is partially correct. It was envisioned as a way to provide anonymous browsing of the internet to anyone anywhere. Protecting the users location is the primary goal of TOR. In effect TOR was designed to provide anonymous transport of data, but when they added the hidden service feature to TOR it became possible to also provide limited storage/retrieval of information too.

Freenet is desinged to provide anonymous storage/retrieval of information from the ground up. In a way I see the two systems as complementary. The problem with freenet (have you tried to host a message board on it? or a web site?) is it is again slow, difficult for a the average user to set up, and still in a very early stage of development.

To clarify, this project would be run on a set of private relays. Clients will be able access the net, but could not sign up to be a relay for the net (at least at first). This increases the security of the network, and ensures no hidden exit nodes are created. Content providers would make their material accessible through hidden services. In fact, content providers could use the relays to host material, AND NOT EVEN KNOW THE INFORMATIONS EXACT LOCATION. (save for the fact that it within the private network) Keeping the network closed (no exits) ensures only people interested in viewing material in the network would use it, hopefully keeping overall traffic within the abilities of the network.

The anonymity of the user would be slightly more secure than in the public TOR people are using now. The anonymity of the hosted content would also be as secure as in the public network. The owners of the relays would be possibly open to legal attack, but this is true in the public network. The only real insecurity is the decreased traffic in the network, but this can be overcome by allowing a wide variety of content to be hosted on the network.

What are you concerns specifically, multavisi?

 

[imagine]

Hey V16

I heard a lot about this at CCC in berlin ( :twisted: ) over the last 2 years. I dont understand much about this but i was quite impressed by the effort put in.

I dont think i can help but any effort to preserve free expression and free trade of information should be supported.

Props to anyone who helps

 

[multavisi]

- what is the name of the project?

- where can I find documentation about it?

- not only exit nodes are weaknesses, I would have to trust private relays that I know nothing about. In the general TOR network you would be hidden by numbers (statistically), that is not the case in a private TOR network with a relatively small number of users/relays. Security is partly based on trust. Stating that a TOR network is actually very secure when run in a closed (no exit nodes) fashion assumes I can trust every relay in that private network. That is a very dangerous presumption. In a true secure setup you have to assume (some) nodes in your network are corrupted.

- You also state that "By running a network with no exit nodes you remove the possibility for corrupt nodes completely". This is not true. I could sign up for your request and be BB (BigBrother). In fact, I assume at least one of your volunteers is...

- do hidden services on a private network need a centralized database on that private network? If so, who would you trust with that?

- I agree with mrvitorsky, be it that TOR needs more relays and more exit nodes. That's the reason I set up my node years ago.

Freenet started in 2000, be it slow for unpopular (= not often requested) content, I find it quit usable. It's Java based, with an easy setup and includes an Plug and Play plugin for users that want their portforwarding automatically configured. And with more users the speed would automatically increase.

Good luck anyway!

 

[mrvitorsky]

Thank you for some one understanding what im saying. Man once agian why arent you asking at some kinda coding forums or within the tor project or a coding forum(as in people their could look at your code and actually make an educated yes or no decision rather than quite a few people who probably know minimal c and so fourth). I mean If I was still in practice of analyzing config files and c I would say yes and check it out before I went thru, If your randal or austin yes(I doubt you are (im my name might start with a d*)).... But other people check out tor. Tor is a beautiful project and if more people use it the better it will run(more anon and faster). Check out my links in sig its a tor site of my own. What I think we need is a .onion psychonaut forum(any one interested circle(http://4eiruntyxxbgfv7o.onion/) has free .onion board hosting and freedom hosting(http://xqz3u5drneuzhaeo.onion/) has free php/mysql hosting....i dont have the energy/time to try and get it started up). I personally think we should help tor by expanding its currently existing undernet of .onion sites.

 

[GOD]

I cant be bothered to read all the posts here but here are a few comments / opinions .

Forget CCC they are an exclusive blender verein ( dickheads ) who are realy an arse lick club where one has to be in with the in crowd . They havent got a clue about XP and only play with shit linux . How do i know ? Because i was there . They used to be realy good and the top levels still are but i dont lick arse for anyone .

Tor is not safe and over loaded by scum abuseing it for file shareing . The people who run it have threatened to stop all file shareing trafic through it .

A private network sounds good ...BUT ... how are you going to keep it private and the ISP servers you would use are not safe / would notice private / coded trafic = big brother would be atracted like flys to shit .

V16 what do you mean ? A private network over telephone lines not useing a public server ? See flys like shit and big bastard .

Also a private network when corupted would betray all users imediately = bye bye big time .

In tor its not just the exits its the entrys to .

An "anonymous" network would soon have people talking about things that they shouldnt because they think that they are in private BUT . And how are you going to controle whos invited to use it ? Just like here its all "identitys" and one doesnt know whos behind those "identitys" .

Codes dont work . Big bastard has acess to the biggest , fatest and fastest composters in the world and would crack it in seconds .

Asking in any forum or openly on the net would destroy the idea before it starts . Gues who watches those forums .

The only reason the internet is allowed is because its one big gigant honey pot .

Theres only one way where a person might be able to comunicate privately and thats face to face with people who you realy know very well .

I dont think private honey pots are a sensible idea . Please give it up or send us cards from prison .

Acept it . There is no privacy in any net .

If i got anything wrong there please tell me .

 

[mrvitorsky]

Yes you are basically completely right. But the use of tor is more than a tool it is a protest. Yes Tor, is totally compromised. At this point its only somewhat protects you from data mining(no not completely). It will be impossible for them to stop file sharing(they don't have the power too with out removing its basic function).

Hes talking about tor without every user being able to create a node(which is basically your greatest hope for anonymity with tor now). Smaller number of nodes, and predefined nodes = less security but yes more speed, it would basically just be a club.

Another aspect of security with tor is the lazy-ness of law enforcement. It takes allot more work to find out wear tor traffic originated from, it would take tracking from box to box(cracking in or raiding, assuming you dont get right out caught by connecting to a law enforcement node or the possibility that all traffic is mitm by ure isp in request of law enforcement). So they arent just gonna go right out and track user by user(location,hobbies, finance, opinions etc) like happens now on the WWW. They are gonna(have been) track specific offenses, then when caught are gonna go through the trouble reading sites/forums and combing through node after node to find out the rest.

The part that's angering me about tor Is what you said, its full of perverts, they're are few and far sites that are consciously against child porn. The support that tor needs as I see it is more users contributing content to the onion network(torland) to drown out the pervs and drive them to the underground.

OF course you wont read this GOD, cause you only care about your opinion getting stroked(big ego ehh?) and cant be bothered to participate in a conversation by reading less than a page of reply's.

 

[mrvitorsky]

Made a psychonauts snap bb on tor if anyone is interested http://4eiruntyxxbgfv7o.onion/snapbbs/643a8e8/