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Byebye and bye

  • Auteur de la discussion Auteur de la discussion HeartCore
  • Date de début Date de début

HeartCore

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22/8/04
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5 284
Being called a fundamentalist by a snotnosed kid is the world turned upside down in my opinion. Thus I've decided to leave this community, I may be back, probably not.

The people who responded and want to help taking action, rest assured, I'm not forgetting about it and I will contact you all.

Have a great life all.

Not coming back to read replies, anyone who wants to stay in contact drop a mail to [email protected]

L&P
Henk
 
Already sent an email, but if you do return (which I certainly hope) I would kindly ask you to not call me a snot-nosed kid. You don't know me (as we sadly haven't met on the last meeting due to you not being able to come) so please don't judge me before you have any idea who you're talking too.
Hope to see you back.

Bless And Love
 
Come on Heartcore...

You're gonna leave this forum because one person calls you a fundamentalist? If you're gonna get through with your action with freedom and religion etc. you will hear a lot more like this... I think it's wise to stop your action right now if you can't handle it if 1 person says something you do not agree with. Put your time in something else then.
 
:shock:

but why?
 
dude come on! you can't be serious!



:tear:
 
Terence McKenna often talked about the shortcomings of words to convey meaning. Whenever we want to communicate, we consult our internal dictionary to put our thoughts and feelings into words, and we hope that the person we speak to has the same definitions in his or her internal dictionary, and knows which one to pick. Unfortunately we all have internal dictionaries that have many different definitions for each word. Hence spoken and written language often leads to misunderstandings.

In this context we might wonder what either Heartcore or Silv considers fundamentalism. In the past I've read several long essays on the subject of fundamentalism. There are in fact many types of fundamentalism.

Heartcore mentioned "this community", but what does he mean with that? The psychedelic community in general? Everyone who happens to hang around on this particular forum? Or only a small group on that forum? Or perhaps just an individual?

Name-calling is generally useless, whether one calls another person a fundamentalist or a snotty kid. It's called argumentum ad hominem ("personal attack") and has no place in serious philosophical, religious or political debate.

I think Heartcore would agree that when talking about Christians his words tend to be provocative, purposefully using words that are offensive without any specific purpose, for example: "christenhonden" (literally "Christian dogs", which has the meaning of "Christian bastards"). By taking such a strong position, opposition is likely, even from fellow psychonauts.

It's fine to be utterly convinced of one's viewpoint, so that one will patiently continue any rational debate that may arise. But when the conviction is expressed in a way that is too overbearing, sooner or later a conflict will occur. I'm talking from personal experience here.

I have often felt angry these past few months. Whenever I read another outrageous statement from a Christian politician I become very angry. Now, if during such an angry phase someone would call me a fundamentalist, I think I would be pretty pissed-off myself. I'm afraid some of the anger we all experience at this time was misdirected, resulting in this particular conflict. Instead of feeling angry at those in control (i.e. religious and political leaders, not the followers) the anger was exchanged between psychonauts.

When I organized a psychonaut meeting last year, I learned that people have very different opinions on psychedelics, religion and spirituality. That evening I learned that each individual is passionate about a particular aspect of entheogens and psychedelic scholarship. This is the result of each individual's unique upbringing, experience, personality and current phase in life. You can't always make another person passionate about your approach. Some watch The Pharmacratic Inquisition and believe all of it, while others are not that impressed, doubting some of the evidence, or are simply not interested in this subject. Since I have a background in religion (Hinduism) and astrology, the Pharmacratic Inquisition and related videos, books and websites were very interesting to me. But I can imagine others aren't, or prefer another approach.

So that was all I wanted to say. Not taking sides here, nor trying to resolve anything, simply throwing in my 2 cents regarding communication and disagreements.

Gee, I don't think I've written such a long post here in months. I will send a copy to Heartcore and Silv.

Caduceus Mercurius
 
Dude! How can someone who preaches peace and love at the end of every post, leave this community over being called fundamentalist? I mean you are not a fundamentalist, and you know it. Silv is not a disrespecting snotnose and you know it. Sometimes people have different opinions, something people say things they don't really mean that way.

This community needs you man! don't leave over this stupid argument...

Peace, Love and forgivingness!
 
I think what Caduceus says is really exactly the point. I think we got in a heated discussion and that me calling HeartCore a fundamentalist on some points wasn't the wisest thing to do (especially because people have much more negative associations with the word fundamentalist than it deserves), and for that I have apologised numerous times. I have not now, nor yet ever had a grudge against HC and I hope it will become clear to him that I never meant to hurt him.
Thanks Caduceus for that post, it IS really a good description of the problem we're facing. I hope we can work stuff out.
Bless an' Love

ps.
For whoever is interested the reason I called Heartcore a fundamentalist on those points was because I think of a fundamentalist as someone who believes in a certain belief (be it religious or not religious) so strongly that he/she obtains a Black and White attitude towards it (what I think is right and nothing else), and this is the kind of impression I've got (which as CM pointed out could actually very well be the wrong impression).
 
do psychonauts need separating or do we need unitedness and mutual understanding ?
if we part, we're no better than the rest of the fuckers that we criticize so much.
 
Ah come on, he can't be serious! When I read his post I got the idea that maybe he needs to work on some personal issues and is leaving to get some thinking time or something... and maybe he used this "argument" in a kind of mischievous way.
 
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