belief

[ararat]

split off from a thread because it was too off-topic

The power of belief is a very strong power indeed

powerful in separating people and creating contention and strife :\ got firsthand experience on that one. we belief only because we are afraid, if we weren't afraid we wouldn't have to believe.

 

[Sticki]

The power of belief is a very strong power indeed

powerful in separating people and creating contention and strife :\ got firsthand experience on that one. we belief only because we are afraid, if we weren't afraid we wouldn't have to believe.

Do I understand you correctly BP?
You believe, That to believe is to be scared???

In retrospect, You have to believe in yourself rather then give away your power for the opinion of another be it an individual or a establishment. Equality is the myth that creates seperation. One size does NOT fit all and by trying to make it so, It just divides people into too small or too big and the normal. Which is more bullshit, There is no such thing as normal. Only I know what is right for me, Like you do for you.

If you believe what other people tell you, How will you ever know what your true potential is?

We are governed by what we believe, Whether it is positive or negative

If a glass contains only 50% of the amount of liquid it can hold, Is it:
A)Half full?
Or
B)Half empty?

Have we learnt nothing of perception on our many psychedelic experiences?

 

[ararat]

I see the loophole of believing in not believing.. and I won't pretend of not having tapped into it. if I hadn't, my post probably wouldn't have been so bitter. so that you understand my standpoint, I had a strong belief up to a few days ago, doesn't matter which, and I realized that I only believed that because I had/have an inordinate desire for some sort of inner security. I think many, many people have that desire, especially in our time in which everything is so uncertain.

You believe, That to believe is to be scared???

why else would we believe? isn't belief something to cover up a sense of void, of fear? what would happen if we didn't believe?
belief is a way of plastering up that hole, so that we don't have to see what is.

belief separates people. I may believe in not-believing, and you do not. or my uncle beliefs strongly in this sectarian leader, and I do not at all, we are separated. not being separated is not the same as making everyone the same.

Have we learnt nothing of perception on our many psychedelic experiences?

most of my significant trips consisted of a breakdown of my beliefsystem and a wake up slap in the face to the present moment, for lack of a better word. I see what you are getting at with the glass analogy, but I think it misses the point, because, departing from there it is a matter of believing the right thing to be saved or whatever, which leads to dogma, clinging and strife.
I read your first post in this topic and I agree with you on this one, I am not meaning to attack you, I am just making the case on belief.


but yes, maybe I'm splitting hairs too much. maybe it is necessary to believe in the possibility of change for things to change, or maybe things change when we look at why we have to believe in change in the first place. whatever, I'll go for a walk.

 

[Sticki]

If something scares you, Confront it!
Do not project your fear onto others, Negativity breeds fear.

What is there to fear, In all honesty?

You are you and I am I and your uncle is your uncle, All three of us are seperate.
We have our own beliefs and do not need to get each others permission to act out our beliefs unless they involve each other. We are one in spirit, One in matter but while we are in the harmony and union of spirit and matter you are unique.

Belief did not seperate these people, It is you that seperated them with your belief!

The buddhist believes that all life is suffering and the root of suffering is desire, So on that note I conclude we all have desired to be here and now we suffer. It should be noted, Water takes the flow of least resistance

Also, As you have stated you are in a crisis of belief.
Hey man, I have been there too but let me tell you something.
You are full of infinite potential, You have to be the change you wish to see and you are the only thing standing in your way. There is always a way around any problem, You just do not know it yet.

p.s. Why do we need saved?

 

[ophiuchus]

the thing about the word "belief" is that, by it's own nature, it puts faith in that which we do not know for certain. what do most people fear? the unknown. if we believe something, then that is to say, we do not know it, therefore, in this respect, belief would be the cause of much fear.

 

[Sticki]

Everything is uncertain...
So, What is it that you know for certain???
:lol:

Becuase I only know, What I believe I know

 

[ophiuchus]

we know nothing certainly :lol: . and even as such, i carry no fear with me.

it is with confidence in evidence that belief becomes knowledge.

 

[Sticki]

There is nothing to fear but fear itself.

If one has no expectations, One cannot be disappointed

Disappointment leads to fear, Fear leads to anger, Anger leads to suffering...

Fear is the path of the darkside.

Be like water my friend, Water can flow or water can crash. Be like water my friend....

What is the ultimate truth?

P.S. I would of also said, It is with experience prejudgement gives way to knowledge

 

[spice]

"faith in yourself is all you need"

Raiden- Mortal Combat

 

[Sticki]

While we are on this subject, Where does God fit into ones belief? :lol:

 

[IJesusChrist]

"faith in yourself is all you need"

Raiden- Mortal Combat

LOL

Raiden wins.

 

[IJesusChrist]

While we are on this subject, Where does God fit into ones belief? :lol:

It is what we have to put something into. Humans are nearly set up to find purpose in everything. God brings purpose, no matter how simple or complex. Perhaps we are God, in more ways than one - he may be an illusion of ourselves, our consciousness, she may be other worldly and intelligent, who knows man i don't know.

I'm getting less and less questioning of the spiritual nature and more of a "let it be" kind of attitude. Perhaps apathetic, perhaps content, perhaps I have given up. No idea. It just doesn't seem worth pondering much anymore.

 

[ararat]

excuse the negativity sticki, I've been in quite a crisis for some time now, especially wintertime always works hard on me :lol:

I think I understand now. the dissonance and tension between my worldview and the culturally normalized worldview that I am supposedly to have (dunno where that idea comes from, probably from school, other forms of propaganda and indoctrination etc.) differ so much that I sometimes give in to the pressure and accept the other, causing myself to deny myself, because not sharing the world view with the authority will cause disdain in them, threatening my life. so I try to fit in, but deny myself in the process, which causes an unbelievable emptiness, which is the root of the destructive egocentrism that I have suffered from. on top of that I had just moved back to my dad's place, who incidentally played a role in that whole story.
gosh I sometimes have a hard time not hating this culture I live in.

 

[Sticki]

Sorry I have not replied sooner, I have been a little busy with a new project that I will share in a new thread very soon

There is no need to excuse yourself BP, We are only human and when faced with oppression especially from the people that supposedly love us it can be very difficult to keep up a positive mental attitude.

I hope your stay is temporary and you find yourself back on your feet in no time, Good luck mate 8)

 

[ararat]

I hope your stay is temporary and you find yourself back on your feet in no time, Good luck mate 8)

to be a bit pedantic, everything is temporary, one major source of fear is forgetting that simple fact, as I've come to find out..


thanks for the kind words sticki

 

[BrainEater]

i heard somewhere that religion divides the people and spirituality unites them. but then again i would say both aspects can be found in either of them.
i would also say, that it's probably more a matter of balance than we may be aware of...
divide and rule... that's how it works. :shock:

obviously the matter of splitting shit has moved into the foreground for most people. it can be seen in a lot of shit.
personality splitting is one of the most common ones... just like splitting atoms...
a glass is also only a potentially broken glass.
that's why they come with big brother shit to scare us and make us more and more breakable or so...
if you know what i mean...

if you ask me, sticki is right... fear is just an indicator for your perspectives and how these may be defined/ruled by
transient and temporary aspects... in other words... to trap you into illusions...
but i can tell you, when you find out who you really are, it may all fall off you, like dead leaves or so maybe...
or you can shake it off somehow... :wink:

i think it's kind of true at least in some shit, that when you know, there is no need to believe.
it's like different stages of the same thing in some sort of evolution or so maybe...
doubting/being skeptic, believing and knowing...

i think feeling is like "true" knowing. if it`s associated too much with the rational/intellectual mind intelligence,
then there is a great probability that the "ego-mind" tries to take power over it and it becomes corrupted in some sense...

in my past, and now also to some extent, i sometimes believe stupid shit from other people, even when i know
my inner voice is the truth... so i would say, take care of yourself and watch out for something like that with yourself. to me the dark side of the force is either fear of illusion or the illusion of fear.
either way, a great opportunity for learning about and from yourself. like everything can be... 8)



peace

 

[Apeiron]

A belief is unsubstantiated knowledge.

Fear derives from a lack of adequate understanding..

It would seam that a degree of fear is inherent in any belief because believing falls slightly short of knowing for fact.

Yet if one is so confident in beliefs to leave no shadow of doubt, fear is sure to be missing as well because they are both midgits who like to sit on each others shoulders and brute about.