Anti depressants.

[magickmumu]

Anti depressants and violence.

what do you think ?

Truth About Antidepressants

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[restin]

I am not a fan of antidepressants but I do not believe them to be the causes for homicide or whatsoever.

Just giving a pill will not help solving any problem. There always needs to me psychiatrical support and treatment. Anti-depressants can help as a by-solution.

I would look less at the pill but more on the person itself. It is the person that kills those people, not the drug. It is the same propaganda as with ethnogenes- remember that.

 

[magickmumu]

A person has his responsibility, I agree.
But that doesn't stop me from being critical about anti depressants.

So what do you think about them.

 

[restin]

I do not like them. I do not believe in chemical imbalance. I know a psychiatrist and he said that an antidepressant WITH talking and other psychological treatment can help. I believe him as I know that he won't tell me bullshit. But they are not the ultimative solution. I did not take pills when I was depressed and I will not.

But I do not believe that they will kill. I mean, if someone kills himself it is so CHEAP to blame a drug, a computer game, a pill, parents etc. There are so many reasons and factors that contribute to e.g. suicide.

EDIT: of course, a treatment needs agreement on both parties. If the "ill" wants to be treated, doesn't want to really kill himself, is seeking for help, he can be healed. If not, there is no chance. Then not even a pill can help. Then not even weed can help. Or LSD.

 

[magickmumu]

I will think about all that for a moment
thank you

Is there anyone else who has something to say on anti depressants?

 

[phatass]

They work wonders for some... do nothing for others....

 

[st.bot.32]

i think the situation is very similar to adderall: some people need amphetamines to be able to function in society and hold a job. speed has a very different effect on these people compared to most others. it makes them more "normal". same with people who need antidepressants.

there was a study released recently that shows that AD's are being way, way over prescribed in the States. cant find it exactly but i think this is it. it was in a lot of major newspapers earlier this year.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-02/plos-wbf022008.php

too often doctors will happily throw you a prescription after asking you just a few simple questions, with no real knowledge of your problem. that's what happened to me, the doc asked me 8 questions, and prescribed me to an SNRI (venlafaxine) 5 minutes later. then began a foggy nightmare that lasted a couple months of my life until i tossed the rotten things. i can honestly say i've seen AD's do more harm than good because people use them to get by rather than make the needed changes in their lives, grow, mature, etc.

 

[Jahvisions]

What do you mean by 'I don't believe in a chemical imbalance' ? I think it's a fact that some people make less serotonine the normal. It's also a fact that serotonine makes you feel happier. So when you have too less serotonine medicines that increases serotonine can give a better feeling, seems logical to me. When you feel depressed because of problems in you life psychological treatment can help but if you have a 'normal' life and still feel depressed I can't see how talking will change that feeling, medicines can. Your whole body is an ecosystem with all kind of processes that are normally in balance and when you are sick it isn't. TCA's are more effective then SSRI's but also have more side effects. So the stronger the medicine the more side-effects cause they also change processes that maybe where in balance cause no substance is 100% selective as they play a role in all kind of processes.

 

[restin]

1. Every "medicine" that is connected to the serotonin system is actually addictive. Then your system gets used to it and you need more and more etc.

2. anti-depressant doesn't mean that this is pure serotonin. There are uppers, downers there are at least 8 groups of anti-depressants.

3. st.bot.32 is right: overprescription takes place.

4. Imbalance wasn't proven yet. And the case that people are natively depressive is not always the case! There may be shocks (death of a relative, divorce), unpleasant conditions, etc etc. If someone is feeling back, you cannot just say *well he has got something with the brain, let's pump some serotonin and he is fine*

 

[magickmumu]

Less serotonin then normal. ?

What is the normal rate of serotonin?

Serotonin gives you a happy feeling. That's just to simple.
There is a lot more that serotonin regulates. I don't know all the details, but it's sounds like a simplification to me.

 

[Jahvisions]

There are methods to see how much serotonine someone has, like for instance concentration in blood or you can label precursers and see it some technology. I am not going to explain everything but if you are interested you can do a search on the web.

Of course there are more factors that make you feel happy, as I said there are a lot of substances and processes that interfere with each other. But serotonine and dopamine are mean factors in persons feeling you can believe me as a scientist who nows a lot about chemical and biological processes, or jsut not but there are enough good scientific studys. For instance check cochrane.org (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systematic_review, a little info so you know how you can separate shit from significant studys)

Maybe if you take 200 mg of MDMA and think of something bad and decide how really bad you still can feel, then you know what serotonine does to a person.

 

[magickmumu]

I would look less at the pill but more on the person itself. It is the person that kills those people, not the drug. It is the same propaganda as with ethnogenes- remember that.

When you take entheogens it's a free choice. There are no doctors telling you to take entheogens.
There is no pharmaceutical company behind it

 

[Jahvisions]

restin: I didn't say that these medicines are pure serotonine, but most effect the serotonine-level.

Overpresciption does take place cause a lot of people just have to life a better life or got some real shit in their lives. But i am saying that there are some people that really have an improvement in quality of their lives.

'. Every "medicine" that is connected to the serotonin system is actually addictive. Then your system gets used to it and you need more and more etc. ' I would like to see some proove from these statements, can you give a good source were there is such a study.

As far as I know it is proven for a lot of people were it has a biological cause. but if you claim it's not i would like to see some proove too.

 

[restin]

When you take entheogens it's a free choice. There are no doctors telling you to take entheogens.

With the propaganda I meant like the government tellin that MJ makes people aggressive etc. So basically that there is concentrated propaganda to dimilish particular things.

Overpresciption does take place cause a lot of people just have to life a better life or got some real shit in their lives. But i am saying that there are some people that really have an improvement in quality of their lives.

So did I. You may have misunderstood me, read my posts again. I also said that a pill can help - but not only by prescription.

I would like to see some proove from these statements, can you give a good source were there is such a study.

If you insert serotonin artificially, the brain becomes unable to produce it itself, as it already has an extern source.

It is like a reward system. A reward is connected to serotonin, if you gain a reward regularly, your brain will get used to it, creating addiction.

Sources? I am too tired now and I don't wanna post links as you can find everything on the internet, even doctors posting bullshit. But I will go into it, promise

you can believe me as a scientist who nows a lot about chemical and biological processes

What do you do? Are you a doctor?

 

[Jahvisions]

Ok we misunderstoud. hehe, no I am not a doc but I almost finished my study pharmacy so I some knowlegde about drugs, chemistry and biology pharmacology etc. :wink:

 

[mysticwarrior]

But I do not believe that they will kill. I mean, if someone kills himself it is so CHEAP to blame a drug, a computer game, a pill, parents etc. There are so many reasons and factors that contribute to e.g. suicide.

Well my father took pills prescribed by a psychiatrist, a couple of years everything was alright because of this medicines. But then the psychiatrist quited his job and my father had to visit a new psychiatrist, who then prescribed him some new medicines. And believe me, in a couple of days my father was so fucking depressed that we really need to keep a eye on him. He was really talking about suicide, which he normally never would talk about. I told him to stop with this medicines, and a view days later his depression was gone. So i am pretty sure, that the medicines he took where the cause of this depression.

A while ago i started to testing MDMA, in 3 month i took 4 trips on mdma. And i started to feel really emotional and sad about things, without having a reason for it. So this also proves that a chemical imbalance can happen because of drugs...

 

[Psychoid]

Maybe the problem is not the antidepressants themselves but the fact that they are prescribed all the time and over 80% of the time they are no needed. When I was young & stupid I tried my mother's antidepressants (Venlafaxine), thinking it would feel good... For the first time of my life I thought about suicide and doing it. The only reason I didn't is that I knew it was because of the antidepressants and that it was a matter of time before I came back to normal. Overall they made me sleepless, tired as hell, feeling like a zombie, with no emotion at all, I vomitted and my eyes looked fucking weird like I was on E but more open, I couldn't eat for a day and it was hard to for like 3 days, and cannabis had no effect at all...

But well... I had taken 1.5x my mother's daily dose at once and she was taking what is considered a high dose... that for sure didn't help.

GREAT

I think it's a fact that some people make less serotonine the normal. It's also a fact that serotonine makes you feel happier. So when you have too less serotonine medicines that increases serotonine can give a better feeling, seems logical to me.

Right... but it is proven that with antidepressants like prozac, the more you take it, the more your brain needs it to function normally. If you've taken it for too long and then stop, your state will be worse then before you started taking it. I don't think it's useful...


Instead of antidepressants, why not take 5-htp? It does increase serotonin, it's a precursorof it! And it doesn't fuck up the way your brain functions like antidepressants... Personally I had been feeling depressed for a while and a month ago I decided to try taking 5-htp regularly for a while and after 2 weeks I noticed great improvement, and now I'd say I'm completely healed, my overall mood is much better and I don't always get frustrated for nothing now.

A while ago i started to testing MDMA, in 3 month i took 4 trips on mdma. And i started to feel really emotional and sad about things, without having a reason for it. So this also proves that a chemical imbalance can happen because of drugs...

Yeah... the depression I talked about was caused by MDMA abuse. (~80 XTC pills in 3 months... that hurts...)

 

[FluidDruid]

burn some incense. :idea:

 

[phatass]

5htp hasn't been proved to do any good against depression... prozac on the other hand has been known to be effective in severely depressed people... the scandal around prozac and SSRI's in general was more due to the fact that the "discontinuation symptoms" were very serious, and were "hushed up", also it was over prescribed...

and if you say AD's made you depressed, you have to take most of them for at least 4 weeks before the beneficial effects start to set in...

But more importantly, any prescription of anti-depressant, if not followed up by regular doctor/psy meetings is useless... the AD needs to be followzed up with therapy....

 

[Jahvisions]

That depression is getting worse after you start or change from medication is known, there is an expected change after 2-3 weeks when you should feel better, if after 2 months it wont work, they have to try something else.

It remains difficult, the body that is very complicated. Then doctors and pharmaceutical industry that doesn't always act in what's best for the patient in practise. There are still don't excist miracle substances(except psychedelics hehe).