Again: Ritalin

[IJesusChrist]

Well, I was prescribed ritalin today, and I took half a 15mg pill.

To say the least I felt something, like a very comforting feeling, that warm blooded, spaghetti legs.

But, also, my math class zoomed by, and so did my homework. This is really interesting (considering the dose). I'm probably not going to take more than half a pill, i will try 1 full pill - to see a difference, but for the most part this was a very positive thing.

I have also been taking ~100% vitamin D on the daily. As winter rolls around, the sun comes out less and a theory of mine is some 'imbalance' depression is due to vitamin D. So far it's been quite good to me.

I had a day where I was just feeling out of it, not down, not up, just... out of the loop - but definitely a side-effect of seasonal 'depression'. I remembered I hadn't been taking Vitamin D lately. So - I'm back on it and I'm completely back to normal.

More time is needed with both of these, but thought I would share it.

 

[Crimzen]

My brother takes ritalin
it helps him SO MUCH that when people tell me ADHD and ADD dont exist i just roll my eyes

then again i dont have either and 1 pill works for me pretty well at keeping me sharp
3 makes my sleep difficult and any more makes it real hard to sleep
i once had 24 (not recommended) and i invited my friend around to my place
i berated him with speech for the ENTIRE time (about 3 hours) without stopping...at all
and i just felt fucked, zero sleep and school the next day = hell+comedown
lol

BUT if used correctly its incredibly useful

 

[spice]

Maybe so guys, but tell me, how do you justify prescribing that shit to a 5 year old child?

It's done here commonly.

Do you know how much prison time it would carry if an individual gave a dose of ANY psychoactive drug to a five year old?

I don't know about anywhere else, but misdiagnosis is extremely common here.

It's easier to find a good mechanic than a good dosctor these days, and good mechanics are non-existent.

Good doctors are probably about 5% of those carrying the title.


edit:

Rebound: Some people who take short acting methylphenidate or amphetamine experience irritability or depression for an hour as the stimulant wears off. Sometimes this is worse than the individual’s behavior before the medication was started. One can avoid rebound by spacing the doses closer together, giving a smaller dose after the final larger dose, or by switching to a longer acting stimulant. Recently several new long-acting stimulant preparations have been released. Although the long-acting compounds often have less rebound, it may still occur in susceptible individuals. Sometimes, we add a tiny dose of short-acting stimulant when the longer-acting stimulant wears off.


This is from a medical website, verbatim....


what kind of path are they setting someone on here?

 

[spice]

they don't even fully understand the mechanism these classes of drugs operates by. Oh, they claim to, at first glance, but really read what they say......

let me state, for the record, that big pharmaceutical companies are pieces of shit, the FDA are OWNED by the pharmaceutical lobby, and man, don't take my word for it, do some research, because there is an entire class of lawyers that make their living, and a good one, suing pharmaceutical companies for death, and all types of injuries caused by rushing some crap drug to market.

People, people......can't I make it clearer?

They want your money, and they don't care.

There is a reason there is so much upheaval about overhauling the medical system here in the usa, and thats because a lot of pockets are very fat with things the way they are.

 

[Crimzen]

fucking hell, thats like crackhead material if you follow their advice

education is the answer to a great many problems
this is one of them

i agree that yes they do mis-diagnose kids and dose them at too young an age
but for the people that are afflicted by this problem proper dosage (generally less than prescribed) and monitoring of behavior will help alot.

of course mood and will to misbehave can easily over run the drugs lol
my brother is proof of this at least

 

[VerusDeus]

Sure it seems like it helps, it helps me too. It's undeniable however that it is merely a short-term solution, and won't help your brother in the long run.

As pleasant as it is to have some kind of relief from your scattered concentration, Ritalin is not the answer. (Just my opinion btw, I don't mean to be telling you what to think etc :roll: )

 

[Crimzen]

for sure
ritalins not a cure
the short term solution has been doing well for the time being
he goes for periods straight off them as well, all holidays and just periods during schooltime (be prepared for a drop in grades tho)
but i think its for the best health-wise, i mean it is an amphetamine after all
surely it cant be terrific for the liver/bladder/kidneys

but yea, i think its a positive thing if used right, just like any tool really

 

[st.bot.32]

totally, view it as a tool.

i have friends too for whom adhd meds like adderalll has made the difference between night and day. used occasionally of course.

i don't think the adhd thing is as simple as it exists/it doesn't exist/black and white. i know kids who never made it through high school who very much had what i would consider to be adhd, and make no mistake, they were smart, but they could not sit down for 5 minutes and focus on _anything_, no matter how scientific, literary or creative it was. now they are paying the price in adulthood.

i suspect a good analogy would be chemical depression. it certainly exists, but far more often than not people who have other problems are misdiagnosed by incompetent doctors looking for a quick way to 'solve' the problem with drugs. (such was my experience with antidepressants anyway, i was asked 8 simple questions and given venlafaxine. there was no effort at all made to determine the nature of my depression, hence no indicator as to what type of antidepressant i would have even needed had i had physical, chemical depression!)

it seems that some peoples' minds just focus in different ways. for example, someone might be super creative, full of ideas to the brim constantly, and just unable to sit down and focus on math, hence this kid is given ritalin. that i find completely sick. if the child has an innate talent, why not focus on that instead?

however if you are the above person, plowing your way through university and you need to pass that math or writing course, and you choose to take adderall willingly knowing it will help you focus and pass the course, more power to you. maybe with time you'll learn from the experience and need less and less of the drug!

 

[IJesusChrist]

1. If a doctor prescribes his patient ritalin - the patient will come back, whether it worked or not. (for the majority of the population).
2. Doctors look at clinical results of the majority of the tested - and prescribe thusly (usually)
3. There are doctors that are intelligent, but the majority does not want to hear exactly what they are going to say
4. FDA is owned by pharmeceuticals, pharmeceuticals are owned by FDA (spelling...) The leaders and presidents of both these corporations are intertwined to a great extent - recently one got fired because it was so obvious what he was doing.
5. I know what you mean spice. If the majority of people (60%+) get a benefit from a drug, it will be on the market. Even in the other 40% have experienced serious symptoms... although death is usually now good enough to rule out FDA approval (sometimes)

I personally dislike that I like ritalin, but it's actions are much more simpler and more understood (however much that may be) than others such as anti-depressents that I am never, ever going to touch.

Long term studies for ritalin are there - and their are long term side effects specifically with memory. I am aware of this - but I am also accepting this, as I take <1 pill a day, and less then every day. To me it's comparable to a cup of coffee.

There are some drugs out there that do much more good than bad, i believe ritalin is one. However, the majority do one positive, and many negatives, but are still able to be sold - so they are.

... ADD and ADHD do NOT exist. It is just a way of classifying someone who has a hard time paying attention - it is not like having diabetes, or something - there is nothing wrong with you, there isn't something in your brain that 'doesnt work'. There is just something that works better with a drug.

And 5 year olds on ritalin.

What the FUCK.

 

[st.bot.32]

well the extreme case i'm thinking of, really, it was a lot more than just having a hard time paying attention. it was the inability to hold a topic in one's mind for more than a few minutes at a time. pretty much about anything at all other than video games and tv. hence this person never graduated high school. and yes, a very wonderful, intelligent person, and fully aware of the problem, yet never bothered to seek treatment as far as i know.

i suppose the above example isn't 100% proof that it exists, after all i never saw any formal diagnosis... but it certainly makes me think about how different this person's life might have been if given a chance to try meds in high school or something. maybe this person would have graduated, maybe even pursued topics that this person was genuinely interested in but just couldn't stay focused on.

so i can't absolutely say that it doesn't exist. i think it probably does, it's just far, far rarer than some doctors would have you believe, and frequently misdiagnosed for much milder 'problems' or yes, wanting to control a healthy child the easy way instead of confronting the real issues. 5 year olds.. indeed. that's scary.

 

[VerusDeus]

I think a lot of this ADD/ADHD stuff is just a result of people not being used to concentrate on one thing for a long period. We hop from computer to television to games etc... However if people with these symptoms would give meditation a serious try, or maybe read a book more often, their concentration will improve.

I, myself have a terrible attention-span, but for me it is certain that this is because I simply don't 'exercise' my attention span. And yeah I have used ritalin a couple of times, and it's definately a relief because I can finally feel like i'm completely there, for instance reading a book I wouldn't have the feeling that I may have missed a few sentences. But when it wears off it only gets worse. It is indeed very much like coffee, it makes me a lot more productive for an hour or two and then I am even more scrambled and lazy.

 

[magickmumu]

But, also, my math class zoomed by, and so did my homework. This is really interesting (considering the dose).

Now I understand why they give this stuff to schoolkids. :lol:


I am going to school again (one day in the week) and I have a hard time focussing and sitting still.
However I don't think there is something wrong with me. I think it is natural. People are not made to sit still and listen all day long, you have to train humans to do such a thing.
The mind is like water, it takes the shape of the container it is poured into.

I always look at our brothers and sisters, the non human inhabitants of this planet.
I have seen Dolphins jump trough hoops. In circuses and on TV I have seen all kinds of animals doing the most crazy tricks, lions, elephants, monkeys, horses and even a Killer whale.
The even made a movie out of it. It's called free will
:lol:

 

[Tunnelvision]

ritalin is like speed right? I know someone who was prescribed ritalin too, it helped in the beginning, but he got very skinny from it and later his moodswings and depressions got so worse he had to stop taking it.


damn it seems like everyone has ADHD nowadays. I slowly get the feeling 80% of this forum has got no clue about what a psychonautism really stands for when i read these posts and reactions.

 

[magickmumu]

They put kids full of sugar and salt, kids start to bounce of the walls and they call it ADHD.
I once spoke to a woman who's son gets Ritalin. I asked her if she looked at his food.
No she wanted her kid to drink cola and sweets because he likes it.
Her son was a very difficult eater as well she told me.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Yesterday I took a full 15mg pill for the first time - didn't like it; I could feel a pressure on my head when I was sitting down and relaxing - subtle, but irratating that this was happening.

Secondly I did not want to go to school at all. I didn't even try in my first class - I did nothing, got nothing done, I'll have to re-do it next week.

Catch-22.

Take the stuff and be dependant but be much more productive, and social;
or not take the stuff, be free of it, and be of mediocrity in both.

all in all I really enjoy the concept of filling the body with very small amounts of nutrients, stimulus, and vitamins, etc... I strongly dislike high amounts of any - the body isn't a 1:1 ratio, or even a linear porpotional user of any of these, there are diminishing returns, and damaging returns for some concentrations. All things in moderation.

I will continue to use the stuff, but I will never take more than one pill, and when I do take an entire pill - I will have to slowly come off it, i.e. 1 pill monday, half a pill tuesday, no pill wednesday.

Spice - that must make you mad

 

[BrainEater]

"forgive them for they know not what they do"

 

[IJesusChrist]

hope that's addressed at the pharmeceuticals, and not me

The uh, ritalin - it seems to work a good 6-8 hours, and I can feel the come off of half a pill. (Why the hell do people take more than 15mg?!) The come off is subtle, again, but it is there - and at first I feel like, hmm I should take another half.

Fuck. That.

I've been realizing that the motivation that the pill gives during the peak hours, can be slowly dragged out beyond the pill's effects. This shows mind over matter of course, however. Without the pill's initial momentum to push me into motivation, I still would not be able to do it myself, without an addition.

Guys take this with a grain of salt - I am actually conducting my own self-analysis. I really find pharmeceuticals interesting, neurological one's anyways. I'm kind of keeping this thread as a journal entry.

 

[tryptonaut]

There's always this argument in the air "but it really helps my brother/kid/friend focus" - that might be true, just as well as I can say that cocaine or amphetamine helps me with a lot of things. I can get a lot of work done, I become more social, more self confident, happier.
The thing is I know that it won't work forever and that I can enjoy these drugs now and then but I cannot - under no circumstances - rely on these drugs for everyday use.
A lot of people have tried using cocaine and/or speed regularly, and most of them thought they were in control, until they found out they totally lost control and now they can't function normally without the drug anymore. I've almost been there with mdma and speed...

Ritalin might be different at first glance because it is slower acting than coke or speed, but in the long run it is just as well a potent mind altering drug and it will cause you more and more problems the longer you take it.

 

[IJesusChrist]

It's true tryptonaut, and I will always have that as a first priority -

I have already stopped after 3 days, and the outcome wasn't that pleasent.

I want to take them for a week and stop, a day or two and analyze, if it's not too abrupt and degrading, I will attempt a month -2 months of use, and stop (not so abruptly).

This may seem like a stupid idea, or risky, and I know this. But to be honest, a month of 7.5mg of ritalin will not do any damage that can not be replaced within a years time. If there is, I am sensitive enough to catch that.

I would rather you guys look at me as an experiment for this, rather than an idiot that wants to take a pill for his shortcomings.

 

[Forkbender]

I've been realizing that the motivation that the pill gives during the peak hours, can be slowly dragged out beyond the pill's effects. This shows mind over matter of course, however. Without the pill's initial momentum to push me into motivation, I still would not be able to do it myself, without an addition.

Just learn from the experience (I think you are doing that) and you will learn what motivation is and how to access it at will. Step by step.