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2C-I/LSD newb, in need of advice

  • Auteur de la discussion Auteur de la discussion oreya
  • Date de début Date de début

oreya

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21/6/12
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Hello everyone. I'm really glad a forum like this exists, nice to meet you all.

I was proposed some 2C-i and before taking a decision I wanted to see what experienced people have to say. I have some particular questions,
but before that , some facts about me:
I'm 21, 4 times acid experienced, been hanging out with Maria for the last year. I'm an artist (guitar player and poet), naturalist and really emotional.

So that's what I can share for the moment :) Here are the questions:

1)I have a a soul-mate with whom we've been together for more than 3 years, and what we have just keeps on growing. I would really like to introduce her to the world of psychedelics. I am 99.9% sure that this kind of experience will bring us to a level of a really clear inter-physical understanding. But I am terrified by that 0.01% that may go wrong because of the unpredictability. Should I take her on a trip with me? What are the common effects when tripping in such a relationship?

2)We would also like to have kids in the future. Will this somehow affect our genes which may lead to physical/psychical deformation of infants?

3)What are the main things I should know when taking 2C-i? This question is mostly about mind protection from bad trips/thoughts. My first acid trip I thought I overdosed and that I was going to die, and waited for that moment for 8 hours (I'm surprised about my mental state today).

This trip is planned to happen at the seaside (beach and all that stuff) in about 2 weeks. Any hints, tips are greatly welcome.

Thanks!
 
oreya a dit:
Hello everyone. I'm really glad a forum like this exists, nice to meet you all.

great to meet you too :)

I was proposed some 2C-i and before taking a decision I wanted to see what experienced people have to say. I have some particular questions,
but before that , some facts about me:
I'm 21, 4 times acid experienced, been hanging out with Maria for the last year. I'm an artist (guitar player and poet), naturalist and really emotional.

Yeah me too.

So that's what I can share for the moment :) Here are the questions:

1)I have a a soul-mate with whom we've been together for more than 3 years, and what we have just keeps on growing. I would really like to introduce her to the world of psychedelics. I am 99.9% sure that this kind of experience will bring us to a level of a really clear inter-physical understanding. But I am terrified by that 0.01% that may go wrong because of the unpredictability. Should I take her on a trip with me? What are the common effects when tripping in such a relationship?

Nothing in life is certain. At any moment the roof can fall on your head, or something good, or boring can happen lol. What matters is love. The fact that you are serious about this sacred exploration and asking questions is really important, so don't worry. the most important thing is set and setting. If you both treat this experience with the utmost respect then that can only be cool.
One thing I am wondering about. OK, just say that you are both tripping and one of you gets into a difficult area--issues start coming up, how will you deal with that? I am asking this sersiouly and not judging, or trying to put you off. I am just pre-thinking and inquiring myself into this. The other day I watched this Rick Doblin lecture where he recommends way to help people who may be having a difficult trip, and this would mean that the support person is presumably not tripping. So that is one way, but I have heard of plenty of trip reports where one, two or more trip and profound things can happen. All I say is realize that IF difficult stuff arises to support each other to not run away but face it.

2)We would also like to have kids in the future. Will this somehow affect our genes which may lead to physical/psychical deformation of infants?

I am gay so this would not concern me. But I haven't heard of this. I would hope it were not true. by the way, I am familiar with LSD but not '2C-i'.
3)What are the main things I should know when taking 2C-i? This question is mostly about mind protection from bad trips/thoughts. My first acid trip I thought I overdosed and that I was going to die, and waited for that moment for 8 hours (I'm surprised about my mental state today).

Had a quick Google and see it was 'discovered' by Shulgan.
OK you said you had a difficult trip with your first LSD trip? I am guessing you did not have support? This is a risk that if you BOTH are tripping and/or both of you tripping have no support that when someone goes through some difficult trip there is noone to encourage you through it. Can you describe what you set and setting was, and why you had the difficult trip, what you went through?
This trip is planned to happen at the seaside (beach and all that stuff) in about 2 weeks. Any hints, tips are greatly welcome.

Thanks!

That is a really nice setting. Psychedelic experience is the utterly opening up of the bodymind in interelationship with nature. So you need to encourage this and not make blocks. This is why set and setting is so important. Setting is the place, and set is your intentions etc.

Here are some quotes I have collected:

“Prior to ingestion, engaging in a ritual where one's intention is made clear and inner space is opened to receive the spirit of the mushroom can be very helpful. I typically light a candle and some incense, sit quietly, and observe my breathing for several minutes. Cultivating mindfulness is perhaps the most important practice to facilitate a deep experience with psilocybin( Hanh, 1991). If one approaches the spirit of the mushroom with respect and an open heart one can more fully benefit from the tremendous potential of the relationship, opening oneself to the dimension of the sacred. During the vigil, the turning within should continue unless prompted to engage in chanting, drumming, or singing. We have found that the stimulation of vocal activity is one of the more common ways of facilitating the effects of psilocybin; somehow the sounds produced during the vigil facilitates deep and long lasting changes in one's being, nurturing the growth and development of the understanding which can emerge over the course of the experience. If you are persistent and a little lucky, psilocybin will quicken you in the deepest part of your being and expand your understanding far beyond the narrow horizon's of our common conditioning.”
The Ten Lessons of Psychedelics, Rediscovered
Over the past 50-plus years, Western researchers have systematically "reinvented the wheel" of ancient practice in roughing out the contours of safe and effective psychedelic psychotherapy (and these "best practices" will be described and explained). If just about every clinical "innovation" discovered in the West for the use of psychedelics has been a re-discovery of a methodology honed through centuries of hard-won tribal experience, then we must begin to embrace, deepen and expand upon the true foundations of Western practice.
Here are ten "lessons learned" for psychedelic psychotherapy, along with the tribal foundation for each:
1. Each drug has a specific effect.
Match effect to purpose. Familiarity with the particular substance, its action and usual constellation and arc of effects is crucial to a successful experience
Tribal peoples had a very purposive and articulated natural psychopharmacopia.
2. Setting can strongly constrain and influence outcome.
Early researchers often strapped subjects to beds in hospital rooms, but over the years that has changed to a pleasing, non-threatening, comfortable, safe environment, often with a specific familial (e.g., pictures) or religious (e.g., icons) content. Some psychotherapeutic use of psychedelics has employed carefully designed and controlled intensity as a lever.
The tribal context is inherently safe and a psychedelic experience supported by family and other authority figures is the norm. Many tribal practices have a fearful and intense context, to stimulate change during a rite of passage.
3. Mindset can scuttle a beautiful context or transcend a hellish one.
Open-mindedness and willingness to "surrender" to the process, confidence in people/surroundings, motivation to learn and heal, rather than for recreation or escape, are all associated with successful outcome.
Tribal participants are completely "bought into" the practice and positive about the benefits to be accrued. Tradition communicates the appropriateness and value of the experience.
4. In general, dose can determine whether it is a mild or extreme experience, although it is often less important than setting and mindset.
Match of dose to purpose can be crucial. While dose can have powerful effect, the mental state, openness and receptivity, mindfulness and intentionality are even more important in determining outcome. There is a difference of opinion on whether ramping up over a number of experiences reduces the potential for panic or simply enables the subject to maintain and incrementally increase defenses. Generally, smaller doses are used for psychotherapy; larger doses for transformative practice. The "psychedelytic" approach alternates periodic large doses with ongoing smaller doses.
Tribal practices are very precise as to the recommended doses for purposes such as hunting, healing, or divination.
5. Preparation, expectations and knowledge can enable lasting value.
Be knowledgeable about expected effects through discussions and reading. Be aware of your own inner issues, through either psychotherapy or spiritual practice.
Through their upbringing, tribal participants are very familiar with the expected effects. Relatives and shamen focus the participant on the problem, illness, object lost, mate's infidelity, etc.
6. Ritual can transmit prior wisdom and guide successful practice.
Benefit from the accumulated wisdom of previous practitioners - have procedures, guidelines, logistics and security in place. The Santo Daime Ayahuasca church is a good example of an accepted approach to therapeutic ritual in a church-like setting; another example is the Native American Church meetings with peyotl. But remain flexible, as some individuals may not adhere to ritual. Even so, meta-protocols for specific types of need, such as for church study groups, substance abusers, teen-agers, newlyweds and the dying may one day provide methodological anchors with which to successfully bring psychedelic practice to the general population.
Tribal rituals instantiate the trial-and-error discoveries of ancestors, yet they remain much more uniform and deterministic than much of Western psychotherapeutic practice. Frequently, rituals are organized around specific rite-of-passage issues. The use of ritual in psychedelic psychotherapy provides a way to imprint (to inculcate dramatically) safe and effective methods. Psychotherapeutic ritual also offers an outlet for needs formerly met by highly-organized, highly- ritualized religions, such as Catholicism.
7. Support from experienced guides reduces fear and increases benefit
Have trusted significant others - family, therapist, physician, etc. - communicating before, at hand during and involved after a psychedelic treatment Focus is on experience and benefit of the participant; guidance is responsive.
In tribal practices, the whole family is there! As well as the doctor-therapist-pharmacist-priest - that is, the shaman - and the mayor/police - that is, the tribal chieftain. As well as the uncle, grandparents, etc., etc., etc. As such, when difficult developmental challenges are faced, then or later, they are done so with the full knowledge and support of role models.
8. Re-entry to a supportive socio-cultural/community context helps retention.
So many epiphanies are lost and resolutions broken by the "after-the-marathon-weekend" effect - that is, reentry into the same context in which the problem was developed. This is one of the reasons why the hippies of the early 1960s decided to 'get back to the land' and create remote communes. To maintain benefits, a client's life context should be supportive and active (not illicit and secretive).
The tribal context is an excellent example of such a unified, supportive community context (one actively acknowledged and emulated by the hippies).
9. Accompanying depth psychotherapy (if needed) and ongoing spiritual practice offer the main opportunity for lasting growth.
Since psychedelics can only provide grounding and direction and so generally don't affect "cures," gains in psychological peace and spiritual maturity must be maintained through an ongoing practice - at one level, psychotherapy, and at another, spiritual practices, such as yoga, meditation and prayer. The spiritual world view that results, has been correlated with improved and maintained health.
Tribal spiritual practices are already a deep part of the fabric of their lives, before, during and after a psychedelic rite and so new gains are integrated into a pre-existing fabric of personality-in- culture.
10. A revised world view is both a requirement for and a result of integrated psychedelic practice.
The post-modern world view integrates mind and body, spirit and the "real" world. This perspective accepts and reinterprets phenomenon such as emergent properties, mind, music, synchronicity, health, chi, spirituality and psychosomatics, into a view of the Universe as fundamentally alive and minded.
So what then, can healing mean? Healing of our psyches, our relationships and families, our nation, our politics and history? Do we heal through psychotherapy, drugs, love, compassion, spiritual practice, service? Moreover, what would be a reasonable action path to a future with a healing world view, a world view that is transcendent, but not apathetic?
To begin, we must consider spirituality as simply the advanced end of the spectrum of normal adult developmental psychology and redefine "neurosis" as spiritual immaturity.
The tribal world view is what we in the West are coming around to, full-circle. Animistic cultures exist in a world seen not only as alive, but also as spiritual in essence, by nature. The Universe, and us within it, are seen as magical, but not supernatural. The post-modern Western view integrates mind, body and spirit to both reflect and distill the tribal view.
["The Ten Lessons of Psychedelics, Rediscovered" is excerpted from a book-in-progress, Psychedelic Healing, with John H. Halpern, M.D., Harvard University.]
Conclusion
It is clear from the history and the research that psychedelics are poised to become accepted once again as valuable psychospiritual tools. We need more human-subjects clinical trials, a more proactive regulatory environment, including a less restrictive rescheduling of psychedelics by the FDA and, above all, a curious, open, accepting intentionality toward the future of humanity's psychospiritual development.

MAPS Bulletin, spring 2009. Special Edition: Psychedelics and Ecology I LOVE this because it focuses on Tripping in nature

Psychedelic Crisis - MAPS - YouTube (SUPPORT FOR SOMEONE HAVING A DIFFICULT EXPERIENCE)

[h=3]A Conversation with Albert Hofmann
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here's a part from 1996 interview:

CG: What would you say to young people?

AH: What I would say would most certainly be: Open your eyes! The doors of perception must be opened. That means these young people must learn by their own experience, to see the world as it was before human beings were on this planet. That is the real problem today, that people live in towns and cities, where everything is dead. This material world, made by humans, is a dead world, and will disappear and die. I would tell the young people to go out into the countryside, go to the meadow, go to the garden, go to the woods. This is a world of nature to which we belong, absolutely. It is the circle of life, of which we are an integral part. Open your eyes, and see the browns and greens of the earth, and the light which is the essence of nature. The young need to become aware of this circle of life, and realize that it is possible to experience the beauty and deep meaning which is at the core of our relation to nature.

CG: When did you first acquire this visionary appreciation of nature?

AH: When I was a young boy, I had many opportunities to walk through the countryside. I had profound and visionary encounters with nature, and this was long before I conducted my initial experiments with LSD. Indeed, my first experiences with LSD were very reminiscent of these early mystical encounters I had had as a child in nature. So, you see that it is even possible to have these experiences without drugs. But many people are blocked, without an inborn faculty to realize beauty, and it is these people who may need a psychedelic in order to have a visionary experience of nature."[/h]
 
If you want to avoid bad trip no matter what you may find some benzo.
Of course tis is not the spirit and you should only take them in case of strong bad trip, because i think get over bad experience is a big part of the psychedelic experience.

For the physical deformation of your future children i really don't think thats something like this can or have happens.

Hope this help
 
Here's part of a transcript I did from Rick Doblin's talk:


  1. Create a safe place
  2. Non judgemental & supportive of the process
  3. Sitting, not guiding. The unconscious is the guide
  4. You can ask about emotional issues
  5. This is the Key Switch from ordinary psychotherapy~~ allowing the individual’s power of self-healing and not imposing the therapist’s interpretation
  6. Key Point: You talk through, not talk down. You encourage people to work with whatever issues are presented
  7. 7 You talk them through it, i.e. “what is it that’s bothering you?” You don’t try and take them away from it.
  8. Core Principle: ‘Difficult’ is not the same as ‘bad’. IE the idea that “I should be partying”. To let them know that difficult does not mean bad.

All though this is therapeutically phrased this is real encouraging for understanding Tripping, and how to care for ourselves and others. Talk about with each other the possibility that one of you may come up with difficult issues and what might happen if you do. To provide warm blankets so as to get into whatever, and agreeing to support each other and not make out that you shouldn't be 'ruining the party' or whatever.
 
oreya a dit:
1)I have a a soul-mate with whom we've been together for more than 3 years, and what we have just keeps on growing. I would really like to introduce her to the world of psychedelics. I am 99.9% sure that this kind of experience will bring us to a level of a really clear inter-physical understanding. But I am terrified by that 0.01% that may go wrong because of the unpredictability. Should I take her on a trip with me? What are the common effects when tripping in such a relationship?

2)We would also like to have kids in the future. Will this somehow affect our genes which may lead to physical/psychical deformation of infants?

3)What are the main things I should know when taking 2C-i? This question is mostly about mind protection from bad trips/thoughts. My first acid trip I thought I overdosed and that I was going to die, and waited for that moment for 8 hours (I'm surprised about my mental state today).

Hey bro :-D here are my thoughts to your questions.

1) You should take her on a trip with you the first time she decides to try. But its not something you should rush her into doing, it must be 100% her own decision, and she must understand that her perception of the world and of reality will undergo huge changes after the acid trip. This is something one is either willing to do and is ready for, or just isn't. Make sure that when you guys do take acid, she's in an optimal state of mind, in a place where she can feel safe and comfortable, and remind her that its all a mind-trip experience, that she shouldn't get lost in her trip, that she must observe, relax, and enjoy what LSD has to offer.

2) Everyone is mutating constantly, our bodies are programmed to try to adapt to our environments. Computer networks technology (such as the levels of radiation and electromagnetic signals and frequencies that interact around and through us), are forever more harmful than a substance such as LSD which causes a temporary mind trip. LSD will not help potentially 'mutate' your future offspring in undesirable ways.
Babies come later, with LSD all you need to make sure is if your mind and spirit can handle the intensity of it.

3) Its all in the mind. If you have a bad trip, all it signifies is uncertainty, insecurity, a wrong point of perspective during the trip and not knowing your truth, wether it be science, religion or spirituality.

To sum this up, no one knows what to expect from an LSD experience (for your girlfriend). All one can do is research, ask, think about it and make an informed decision. As long as she understands that LSD is powerful medicine, and should be taken and used with care and with respect for it.

Its also alright to experience a few 'bad trips', as long as you analyse what went wrong, and then work on yourself and wait some time before you take it again.


I hope this has helped buddy.
 
Hey everyone,

Thank you for all the advice, sorry I didn't respond although. With your help I felt really confident about the good trip we will have, and so we did. Everything went fantastic, we even shared hallucinations.

I think the main ingredient for a good time is that expirienced/close person's presence.
 
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