12 hr cycle for whole life? Vertical Scrog?

[tweakednite]

heres the specs
4 babies in soil in a pot big enough.
12 hours light cycle
right now lit w/ a CF that puts out 2600 lumens if i remember right. its a 150w that uses 75w.
2-3 weeks old

my plan is to weave the 4 stems together and then do a vertical scrog w/ a 400w HPS when they are big enough to graduate from CFLs.

how do you think the vertical scrog will work? i havent seen much about it online except for a couple people, but they never said anything more than they are trying it.

how well does the plant do under a constant 12 hr light cycle throughout it's life?
is it safe to assume it will probably just mature faster w/ a smaller yield? will it be more potent than if it grew to full size?

i really hope they are all females (like .625% chance).....ill either take out the males before i start the weave or just cut the stems if they are already woven into the chicken wire.

if the project doesn't work, its fine cuz the seeds werent bought online or otherwise valuable

 

[GOD]

What is a vertical "scrog" . What is a " CF" ? Do you meann cold flourescent ? Why should you want to weave the stems together ? It will result in less yield .

"is it safe to assume it will probably just mature faster w/ a smaller yield?"

Yes . Using 4 seperate pots is a better idea .

"will it be more potent than if it grew to full size?"

No .

 

[tryptonaut]

In the grow phase it's better if you make that light cycle 16-18 hours. And the fluorescent, I don't know... 75W fluo seems a bit weak. Better start up the hps lamp for the grow phase as well (I know it doesn't have enough blue light for the grow phase and so on - but it works pretty good, and when you have the fluo in addition, it's definitely better than that fluo lamp alone.).

I'm not sure what you mean with the vertical scrog. Do you mean bending the stems down ? If so, then I have done that once because I let the plants grow too high (it was my first time growing and when the plants were about 6feet and were just beginning to flower, I realized I had to bend them. It was a good idea because that way a lot of leaves and buds were in the best spot under the lamp. The yield was pretty good, even I had only had three females left (it was like four or five big buds per plant, the ones where you usually only get one at the top and the others are smaller)

 

[tweakednite]

CFL= compact florescent light
scrog=screen of green.
generally you weave a plant though a screen (like chicken wire) and what it does is create a horizontal plane of all the leaves and the buds form vertically. it creates a much more even light distribution for the plant.

vertical scrog would just change the screens orientation to vertical. the main reason i want to do vertical scrog is because i dont have much vertical space to grow in.
the weaving/twisting the lower stems together would just contain all the stems in a smaller area that way i wouldnt have to use 4 pots.

but yeah, 4 pots would probably work better, ill transplant them when get some new pots.

the CFL is kinda weak, but its worked pretty well for the size they were at until now. ill go start up the HPS.

the reason i want to do 12 hour for full life is because I don't want to have my HPS on for that long using that much energy until i live alone and a small yield is better than none or the highish prices around me.

thanks for the help god and tryptonaut

 

[tryptonaut]

So 75W is too much already for a few hours? Wow, your energy costs must be pretty high... Maybe you could switch on the hps for 12 hours and leave the fluo burning for another 4 hours (that would imitate a very natural sunlight cycle I guess, high powered, lower Kelvin for 12 hours and another four hours of higher Kelvin - but don't take my word on this)

I don't quite understand the vertical scrog thing. The plant grows very much vertical on it's own, why would weaving it through a wire be better? I only know this has an impact if you bend the plants horizontally, so that more leaves and buds are going to be in direct light. My guess is that when none of the pros has ever done a vertical scrog (that's why you're asking it on this forum, are you?) then it's not good.

 

[GOD]

Thats what i thought you meant . I`ve done it horizontaly many times outdoors so the neighbours didnt see anything .

"the weaving/twisting the lower stems together would just contain all the stems in a smaller area that way i wouldnt have to use 4 pots."

This would be totaly unproductive , the plants would get in each others way and take light from each other . Its better to give your plants a 6 to 8 week growth cycle before you start the 12 hour cycle if you grow from seed , you can do it if you grow from clones though .

What about adding another flourescent light or two for the growth phase . Two cold white and one warm white . If you look around there are "Day light compact flourescent lights" wich have a better spectrum than normal CFLs . When i started growing indoors in 1975/6 i used ordinary 150 watt warm white light bulbs , in those days there were no grow shops and no information about HPS lamps . When i heard about HPS lamps they were also not available , so we used to go to the local railway shunting yard and steal them or steal street lights . I`m not telling anyone to steal anything , just telling you about the start of indoor growing before grow shops .

 

[tweakednite]

the HPS would be too much energy, not the CFL..sorry about that. thats a great idea - the 12 hour, 4 hour thing.

ill post some links about it if im allowed to, anyone know if i can? its to other forums and pics.

Scrog has been around for a while and is a legit and good method. just like most methods, there are downsides and upsides. no one has done v-scrog really, its been talked about in theory.

i'm not sure what you mean by "pros"...but if you mean seed sellers and people who enter into the cannabis cup- im sure not because they have much more and better of everything i have. they are on a completely different level than i am.
if i wanted to be like a pro, id spend hundreds of dollars on hydroponics, metal halide AND high pressure sodium, buy a ton of mylar, convert one of my rooms into a grow room, install a duct fan, install a hygrometer and temp gauges on the wall, oh and all the wood to convert the room.

i do not have the money, space, or time (homework-in college, not highschool). i do however, have enough for a small "closet" grow and enough time and money to keep one going. there are many people like me who do the same thing, but i think their closets are taller than mine, so i was in search of a method that can use horizontal space better than vertical (if you know of one, please advise), and v-scrog sounded like a good thing to try.

youre right that it will provide more leaves and buds with light.

heres some science/math about it if i can remember it right.
light acts like a wave, and its light intensity(lumens) is logarithmic. meaning the farther away you are from the source, the less light (duh) but its on a logarithmic scale, so you lose a drastic amount of useable light every time you move it away.

why is this bad? because most plants are grown vertically inside and so the bud and leaves at the top are great, but lower than that it loses potency.

 

[GOD]

You dont need mylar . Just use ordinary mat white paint .

In the case of the "High Times Cack" "Pros" mostly means prostitutes . Its a total rip off . A con . Mainly a convention for VIPs with white noses . ( VIP = Very I-goistic Pissers )

" bud and leaves at the top are great, but lower than that it loses potency."

Nope . The ones at the top might be bigger and fatter , but not stronger . The strength is controlled by the genetics of the plant and the amount of heat on the buds . At the top its nearer the light = hotter and the buds have been in the light , heat and light are not good for THC . What are the dimensions of your closet and how are you going to provide air and get rid of the stink ?

Tryptonaut , by vertical scrog i think he means growing a flat plant just like using a trellice / pergola and lighting it from the side . Instead of growing a tall , wide fat plant and lighting it from the top .

 

[tweakednite]

god- i didnt see your post before i put my other up 2 min later. ill read it in a sec.

i was actually commenting on jorge cervantes dvd mostly, its the only video i've really paid any atention to regarding growing. i do have those other videos from HT, havent watched them yet. i have a friend and a dealer who used jorges dvd to make a room. my friend ended u having to take it all down, but the dealer is still doing it i think.

thanks for the info on potency, i thought it was stronger, not bigger.

as for the smell, that is kinda played by ear, ive never tried it in this area. i have a few plans. they involve a combination of smell absorbing charcoal and other smell absorbing things and directing the filtered air to a window a foot away. if theres ever a point that it cant be dealt with, im going to dispose of them.

i'm away from the area, but id say its about 4 by 5 by 4. its not a closet built into the house, its handmade closet the runs across the whole wall (its a room that looks like an A frame). so the slanting ceiling interferes with the height.

youre exactly right about it being like a terrace. thats a way easier way to explain it.

now onto your post that was 2 min before mine

that takes some major balls to do a secret grow outside on your own property. i assume you werent caught. id love to know how you pulled that off, unfortunately i live on a corner house...and a chain link fence.

the point to the 12 hr cycle for the whole time was to force them into flowering early so i wouldnt have a HPS on a lot. are fluorescents ok to use for the whole vegetative stage? i was under the impression you couldnt.


ill go check out those types of bulbs tomorrow at some stores.

thanks for the help- guides wouldnt have been enough.

sorry if my post before sounded rude, it wasnt ment to, i was just pissed/bitter that i cant do a full on grow room. if i had all that stuff, it would be way easier.

 

[buffachino]

If you want to use as much horizontal space and have no real experience with previous closet growing with restricted vertical area, I would suggest simply getting about 10 small pots, lining them up along the floor of your grow room in a long tub that will catch the excess water, having a seed in each if your starting that way then growing on a 24 hour light extent until they are about 4-6 inches high, then switch to 12/12 light cycle and begin flowering.
I wouldn’t use the fluro’s, there pretty weak and won’t be able to give your plants enough strength before you switch over to a more powerful light. So just use the HPS the whole time, grow em real small, switch to 12/12 and bud them short for a SOG (sea of green) effect. Should utalise as much of the space better than trying to train them on a wire mesh, which might damage your yields and potency and give you less reign for male presence or damage to the plants that will probably happen.

 

[tweakednite]

that would work, except i didnt mention an issue. probably should have brought it up earlier...

i cant hang the 400 HPS. the hood is too heavy for the wood the closet is made from, and i don't want to risk hanging it, it falling and the potential of a fire. even if no fire, i dont want to damage the closet..

the lights i have access to are 250, 400, 600. all are HPS, borrowing from my friend that had to take down his grow room. the 250 and 600 have the ballast unattached to the reflector hood. the 400 has the ballast built into the hood. the 600 is too much for me, and the 250s ballast cord was cut. its easily repairable, but i still dont trust it.
the cord was cut because the police confiscated it from some grow op and didnt bother to unplug or something i think. they were all bought at a police auction by my friends boss and sold to my friend i love recycling.

ill keep that in mind if something ever comes up that i could actually hang a hood.

i was hoping that the 12 hour would just force quick flowering and quick but smaller growth. i guess no one else thinks its worth it, ill go w/ 12hr hps and 4hr fluorescent- the light cycle trypt suggested and lights god suggested.

oh, forgot. i thought a dark period was required? ed rosenthal mentions it online. my friend noticed it too. he only saw growth in the morning. hed check on it in the morning, afternoon, and night. ive never done a 24 hr period, always 16-18.

 

[buffachino]

A dark period is beneficial, but it isn’t needed; it does give smaller internodal length during the main sequence veg stage but if you’re growing small, they only need to reach a minimum hight to begin budding, so 24 hour is fine. A dark period is for larger more productive plants, where vertical space is an issue, but so is horizontal space, making a larger, multithreaded plant with really small internodes the better option to a smaller garden of multiple plants.

Regarding the lamp, perhaps you should reinforce the closet where you’re growing, or conversely, get hold of or make a stand with an overhanging arm to connect your light ballast/reflector onto so as that it isn’t conflicting with the closet structure. Then you can have a solid connection between the light and the structure holding it so it won’t have any danger of falling or creating a fire. Do you have enough room for a fan? I hope so, because it’s going to get hot in there. I’d use the 400 watt HPS lamp for that area size; it will give quick and powerful results, so you won’t need it on for long if you’re growing small.

And having it begin and remain on 12/12 from seed is a stupid idea, and wont bring you faster results, the plants require a vegetative stage to establish themselves before they can produce any flowers, let alone a prolific amount of potent bud. So you need to have them grow a small amount before you consider switching to 12/12.

So I suggest the 24 hour light exposure, then when there big enough, switch strait to 12/12; Quickest and best results in my opinion. Using the fluros to try and conjure good growth is a waste of time, space and effort. Interchanging them with a HPS fixture will be troublesome too, so its best to choose a lighting plan and stick to it.

Peace.

 

[GOD]

Jorge Cervantes knows what he is talking about , so does Ed Rosenthal study what both say well and they will answer most of your questions and help solve your problems . One step at a time is better than trying to start with a fully professional grow room is the best way to learn .

Plants STINK when grow and even more when they flower and its hard to get rid of it or mask it so that other people dont notice it .

"that takes some major balls to do a secret grow outside on your own property."

Diferent countrys have diferent laws , i got caught growing indoors in 1972 and later in 75 / 76 in my own country . Another time out doors in about 1978 . Allso indoors about 12 years ago in another country . I would never try growing in wild patches again as all of the times i tried it it got eaten by animals or stolen by thieves . The best place to grow is where you have total controll over it . Most people dont notice them growing out doors even if they are experienced with smoking , and nobody notices if you grow them flat with other plants in and around them .

4 by 5 by 4. Which is Hight , width and depth ?

"are fluorescents ok to use for the whole vegetative stage?"

Yes . You can do all stages with flourescent lights . You just need enough of them . If you look around you might be able to find info / pictures of mini grow rooms the size of a small shower cabin and even ones half as high as a shower cabin with flourescent lamps used for all stages , they used to be very common in grow shops and high times magazine . As i said there are much bigger and more powerfull warm / cold white and daylight flourescents available nowardays .In the space that you have hanging an HPS light would mean extreme heat and having to have a way of getting rid of it and providing air = door permanently open and a BIG electric fan . Hanging it verticaly would cause a bit less heat . Flourescents dont make as much heat but you need more of them . So you have the choice of hanging your lamp horizontaly and keeping your plants small , or scrog hanging your lamp verticaly , or flourescents . If you start with your trellice and have 8 plants in seperate pots you can just cut the men and the weaker growing women out later to get more space . You could allso use a trellice covering 3 sides , Depth , width and depth . Or a horizontal trellice wich would not harm them and would keep the hight managable . If you do it without the trellice pulling the growing tips out will make the plant grow two new ones from the point that you did it every time , that means that you can encourage them to be smaller and bushy .

Personaly i would go for the horizontal trellice for the first time wich means that your whole plant height might be 1 foot in the growth stage and 18 inches to 2 foot in the flowering stage covering the whole width and depth of your space and see how it goes with your space and light . If you did it that way you would have room to raise or lower your light /s . I would not grow them on a 24 hour light cycle i think 18 is enough . One reson being that you dont want them to grow so high in the vegetative cycle . I would allso go for the flourescents as they dont produce as much heat and are lighter than a 400 watt HPS with a transformer and reflector attached , and you can get them nearer and in amongst your plants .