DMT extraction using Phalaris Arundinacea

[Kent]

I am attempting to extract DMT using Reed Canary grass (Phalaris Arundinacea) and I know that the plant contains both 5-meo-dmt and nn dmt. The nn dmt is what i'm looking for. So I was wondering if there is a way to seperate the 5-meo alkaloids from the nn dmt alkaloids once the extraction process is complete.

 

[IJesusChrist]

in short:
no.

The methoxy group is not active enough to be able to seperate it with normal reagents and equipment.

The only way would be via lcc... i don't think you'd want to do that.

 

[Kent]

So is it safe to smoke something that has a combination of 5-meo-dmt and nn-dmt?

 

[IJesusChrist]

yes? nn dmt is the most common. meo is less visual and more emotional.

 

[IJesusChrist]

You're thinking about the very toxic substance gramine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramine

Apparently it is not as potent nor as concentrated in grass as I previously thought;

success with arundinacea!! ...

I finally got around to trying out my phalaris alkaloids from some locally collected grass growing along side a river nearby..

the tech i used is crude and could basically be done over a campfire..it grows everywhere, including in my house, so wasting was not a problem.This was just a test

I froze maybe 2 ounces of grass to break down the cell walls, then stuck it all in a blender and chopped it up.. then threw it all into a pot, added water and vinegar and simmered it for about 25 mins, then strained and continued to boil it down to very small ammount if green liquid, then I put it into freebase form and evaporated it down to a oily green blob..didnt bother with defatting this time..

Next I disolved this blob in some isopropyl and stirred until it was all absorbed, and then evaporated this green tincture back onto some crushed up passionflower leaves for a changa like smoke mix..

I loaded a little pinch into my bubbler ontop of some ashes and took it all in half a lung full..I started to feel some effect..slight tingling like something was going to happen but i couldnt really tell, so about 2 minutes after the first hit I loaded my bowl up again, this time about twice the ammount as before and hit it. Euphoria began to build and I looked at some indian blankets i have on my walls and the patturn began to morph into each other slightly and swirl around. My heartbeat increased slightly and i felt the familiar tingly pressure in my forehead..

I expereinced no nausea, the only side effect was a little uneasy feeling at the beginning(I get this with all tryptamines). I did feel slightly burned out(on the level of cannabis) about an hour or so after but nothing too noticable..could be effects of gramine or other alkaloids as this was just a full extraction.

Seemed to last a bit longer than mimosa alkaloids would at this level as well so i guess there are other contributers..def worth more exploration..kinda weary about breakthrough dosages still though..

 

[ColdPlace]

I have 4 layers.. now what?
The bottom layer (4) is some kind of sludge which has sunk into te 2nd from bottom layer (3).
bottom layer (4) is white of color and is 1 inch high.
2nd from bottom layer (3) is liquid and yellow of color. its 4.5 inch high.
2nd from top layer (2) is some kind of sludge which drifts ontop of 2nd from bottom layer (3).
2nd from top layer (2) has a yellow/ white color and is half inch high.
Top layer (1) looks like milk (i think its the naphtha) and is 1 inch high.

So what did i do:
1.Pulverize the grass clippings
2.Add water, "enough to make a pourable soup"
3.Acidify to pH 5 or so
4.(Optional) Simmer the acidified soup in a slow cooker overnight, not allowing the liquid to evaporate. ("It may take two or three such operations to get all of the alkaloids into solution")
5.Strain the plant matter through cheesecloth, then through a paper coffee filter
6.Add 10 to 15% of the mass of the solution in a "defatting solvent" such as methylene chloride, ether, chloroform, or naphtha.
7.Shake vigorously
8.The crap will go into the solvent, leaving the good stuff in the water.
9.Separate the water from the solvent.
10.Add a base to the aqueous solution in small increments until the pH gets to about 9 or 10. This converts the alkaloids into their free base.
11. Added 10% Naphtha.

What is going on?

tnx

 

[IJesusChrist]

You really only have two layers, a top and bottom.

The bottom layer has the aqueous, and plant cells that are mostly water and hydrophilic. That means they aren't going to dissolve, but they aren't really a "layer".

Then you have the top layer. This is the naptha (or whatever nonpolar solvent you used) and hydrophobic compounds like fibers and fats and such of the plant.

Carry out the process as usual. Take off the bottom layer(s) [ (3) and (4) ] leaving (1) and (2).

When you have just (1) and (2) simply filter off the (2) sludge, wash it with a little bit more solvent, collect all the solvents and combine. Freeze precipitate as usual.... simple.

 

[ColdPlace]

Thank you for the quick reaction, realy appreciate it

The milky top layer where actually 2 layers after separation.
One clear liquid (10%) and one sperm like goo ...
i separated them also and put them into the freezer.

im beginning to think i need to start all over again, do it more precise maybe.

and im thinking to separate the nn-dmt from all other alkaloids by evaporation and condensation since nn-dmt melts at 59°C ?

We'll see what this wash will bring me.

 

[IJesusChrist]

before you get to purification, how long did your layers sit? and was the top open?

The top layer is one layer, I promise - you only have 2 layers, but both layers contain precipitates. Don't throw anythign away at this point!

 

[Jahvisions]

Well Ijezuschrist, I don't no what are normal equipment and reagents for you? but if 5-MeO-DMT citrate is nearly insoluble in acetone and nn-DMT citrate is very soluble in acetone I think it's pretty simple and straightfoward for everyone to separate them with normal stuff which everyone can obtain (to my knowledge lemons and acetone are legal in most countries)

 

[IJesusChrist]

Yes and I've recently read that there BPs are very different, allowing for a cold-finger sublimation too...

but your way is even easier

 

[ColdPlace]

No luck at first try ... I could try and do the same procedure over and over again with the same harvest and its compounds,
but since I've got some very nice feedback on this thread, I decided to start from the beginning and do a full report.
(Should I start a new thread or can I just continue on this one?)

I allready have a new crop Phalaris with roots and all which Im trying to stress as much as possible at this time.
I will post a pic later this evening.

I did read about the seperation with acetone, but what will happen with the other compounds and alkaloids such as gramine which is toxic?

 

[Jahvisions]

First, I must say the credit doesn't belong to me, I remembered reading something like this on the nexus and after googling,
separating 5meodmt en dmt I found it back in 1 minute. I think some crazy guy called 69ron developed it.

For the for layers ijesus christ is right, it's an emulsion and it's important that all fine particles will be filtered out.

There are a lot of species of the grass and indeed a lot of them have very low dmt content.

I did some search but couldn't find nothing about the how much 5meo is there in comparison the nn. If it's very low nothing will precipate out. If it's high it's not safe to smoke.

About gramine and other questions, I suggest you do some research and reading yourself coldplace, the nexus people did a lot of work on dmt research.

 

[ColdPlace]

you mean this?: http://www.intensevisuals.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2145

I think I messed up with the extraction of the fats (first time adding defatting solvent) because the naphta was as clear as when i added it to the water.

Problem is, the more i read on the web, the more contradictions i get.
For instance,
erowid says the arundinacea strain only contains NN-DMT: http://www.erowid.org/plants/phalaris/phalaris_faq.shtml#6
nexus says it contains NN-DMT as well as 5MEO: http://wiki.dmt-nexus.com/Phalaris_arundinacea

Teks also differ, I allready am reading for months now but the grasses just arent that popular.
This is why i want to start over, because its no exact science (since science aint touching it)
And because most reports i've read and had succes, where 2nd 3d or later tries. I now have an indication where to be more precise in the whole process.

To awnser your questions IJC, the layers sat for more than 24h with top closed.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Phalaris is highly unknown and untredded territory. Some say a single crop can vary in nn and meo content from plant to plant.

I thought 5-meo was fine? Non-toxic? Why would it be unsafe to smoke in high quantities? Some even like 5meo more than nn.

Anyways. Take this up as an experiment of your own. You are now the scientist on new grounds with new research. We are the peers waiting for your discovery. There are hints along the path, but the destination will be completely unpredictable!

 

[ColdPlace]

Many thanks!

5-meo is cool indeed. (4 times stronger than nn-dmt), but its more body-load and thought altering and less visual than nn-dmt.
So SWIM would love to separate them and experiment with single varying dosages and combined varying dosages.
Phalaris Arundinacea's potential can vary over 600% ! (more or less)

Pioneering is SWIM's expertise since he's a designer
So his reputation is at stake... :?

I'll continue on this thread.

cheers peers

 

[Jahvisions]

I don't think it's dangerous fysiologically, although a higher rise in bloodpressure is seen in comparison with dmt.

Indeed some like it more because but there seems no consensus: some say it's emotionally deeper and relaxing(shulgin)http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal38.shtml, while dm turner in the essential psychedelic guidehttp://www.erowid.org/library/book ... /dmt.shtml says about just the opposite faster, more forcefull. When I look at the general experiences on the nexus, 5meo-dmt tends to have more negative experiences when smoked (maybe because you can overdose more easily which is pretty diffecult with nn and also the speed of onset) but true: an equal amount of people say 5meo is better, sublinqualy people seems to give most people more positive results.(never had 5meo myself, also not looking for the experience myself)

The only thing I don't now was the proportion between nn and 5meo in the grass, if for example you weigh 100 mg and a third is 5meo, you smoking 30mg and you have an overdose already that will give unpleasant expernces for sure.

 

[ColdPlace]

SWIM's new harvest



(redbull is for scale recognition)

Still stressing with sunlight reduction and lack of water.

 

[ColdPlace]

A recent extraction with Phalaris!!!

http://forums.mycotopia.net/botanicals/82666-phun-phineas-phalaris.html

This is going to be fun! :lol:

 

[ColdPlace]

allright, after stressing and chopping all to 1 inch or so and many frosts and defrosts (I'm guessing 6 to 8 times or something), SWIM came up with this:


SWIM's shredding it tomorrow with his blender, see what happens.

cheers