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Speed Question
Lets say someone got some speed but after trying it not really sure what it is. Heres a description maybe someone has an opinion Ive done a bit of research before asking and not found anything useful.

White powder in rock form( possibly some kind of amphetamine salt but im not sure), kind of soft and pasty but not liquid.

Has a strong chemical smell similar to crystal meth, especially when its not dry.

It drys out when left unsealed at room temp in rock form say 1g in around 1-2hrs, when spread out, around 0.2g about 10- 15 mins.

When dry it hardens to a hard rock or powder and loses roughly 20% of its weight, 1g wet= 0.8 dry.

When looked at closely under a good light it sparkles with what appear to be tiny crystals.

When snorted after only a short drying period theres a strong chemical odour, it burns and causes the eye to water, makes the nose run for a short period of time and leave noticable whiteness if around the nostril if not wiped. It causs the nose to block for a while but not too much and soon clears up.

When totally dry there less of a chemical smell but stil burns and leaves a strong taste at the back of the throat.

It has a really bitter taste but not as unpleasant as crystal.

Its effective but not in a totally speedy kind of way. There is a good buzz if around 0.5g of still soft is taken over the course of a few hours, makes you sweat with really strong B.O from the armpits. Keeps you awake for a long time, kills the appetite, hard to get to sleep on (ive had 4 hrs in 2 days with 1g) but has a more kind of stoned effect rather than speedy.

Dry the buzz isnt so good, still loss of appetite and no tiredness with less sweating.

Leaves some residue in the nostrils, sort of like thick snot but not irritating or a lot.

Ive not a clue as to exactly what this is, it does the job but doesnt really seem lke speed to me as ive seen it in just about any other form from white liquid,powder and rock, yellow paste,oil and slightly off-white powder and the famous uk Pink Champagne, but i ve never come across anything like it before.

I know the source well so im sure its not been cut by him, it appears relativley fresh. Theres been no complaints fom anyone else whos used it and they go back for more.

Anyone have any suggestions as to what it may be? im sure its speed of some kind but it maybe it isnt as the tastes and effects dont seem to be the normal ones from previous experience.

Do today what you'd regret not doing tomorrow if tomorrow never comes..
did you have a headache after use? could be mcpp i think but i've never heard it's also sold as speed (but i'm no speedfreak, i do have experience with speed but not much)
as we separate and compare
This is classic description of street speed witch is full of incomplete reactions. But this shit still works pretty hard. If you dry it what you are looking is oxidizing of amphetamine base!!! This is pretty sure an amphetamine base without salt hand and it is very unstable. If you cant snort it try to eat it. Works better and longer lasting than nose consumption! And smell is classic also, like some kind of detergent like Ariel, isn't it? Seal next time baggy tight and away from light and temperature!

http://www.psychonaut.com/index.php?opt ... 02&lang=nl
Thanks for your replies,

to answer a few of your qustions, firstly it doesnt give me a headache and thered not much of a comedown(but i use valium to help with that.

Im not a speed freak myself and dont buy unless i know its good stuff.

As for the oxidization point, i think its true to some extent, i have a freind who is a chem student and asked her advice. I was told that yes letting it dry could affect potency etc but depending on quality it may not affect it too much. Unfourtunatley i cant get her to test it for purity etc as if she was caught she would lose her university place and be banned from becoming a qualified chemist and hers is a specialized field, shes in her final year and its too much of a risk.

Ive experimented a little with a new purchase which appears to be almost identical in my previous description and found the following:

!. Upon drying it loses less weight than before.

2. The effects are almost identical wet or dry.

3. I dried some then put it back in the freezer overnight and found that it got slightly damp again,but was easier to chop and had the same effects as the undried to a certain extent

In my opinion this is something between speed and meth without the problems associated with meth to a certain extent.

As for the odur, its not like areil, its much more chemical, like amonia/ethanol that type of thing.

Any further ideas would be appreciated, especially if there a simple way i can stabalize it and if anyone has come across a similar substance and what they think.

Again thanks for the info its been useful:-)
Do today what you'd regret not doing tomorrow if tomorrow never comes..
As for the odur, its not like areil, its much more chemical, like amonia/ethanol that type of thing.

Well it could be crack or basecoke actually, crack can be snorted or swallowed but it just doesn't give a high, since cooked substances have various other stuff added to make it smokable it might explain why you felt the things you described. It also could be a sort of amphetamine which has been prepared for smoking somehow.

Hey, put it on foil and see or it melt easily when warmed up with a lighter. If it easily melts try CAREFULLY to inhale a tiny bit, be preparded 'cause if it's a smokable form it can be powerful if used that way.

Also, does it dissolve in water well?
This sounds a lot like a drug called methcathinone, which is made from the same precursor as methamphetamine, ie; pseudoephedrine.
But where pfed is reduced with some method to obtain meth, methcathinone, aka 'cat', is oxidized, to generate cat.
I used to make and do cat. I didn't like it for the same reasons I didnt like meth, namely, the mood change I felt it was responsible for, the horrible BO it caused, and that it left us , well, I guess you could say stoned, but I felt stupid....we were smoking it....
I'm pretty sure cat is what you're describing.

The telltale with cat is that it has a scent of what some would call almonds, I thought it had a pistachio smell, along with the typical amine smell.

"condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance"

Albert Einstein
Now that I have thought about it, I can probably explain the wet/dry too..

The preferred solvent for crystallizing cat is ethanol or methanol.

The guy making that cat was probably using everclear as an ethanol source, which would explain the subtle difference in effects...

Cat is racemized by methanol and ethanol to certain extent, so the effects profile of one form may not be the same as the other....

...this would also explain why you weren't getting sick ingesting a bunch of solvent.

"condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance"

Albert Einstein
Thanks for your repliesSmile

Well i tried to smoke a little on the foil to see if it would work, it did but the smell and taste was that bad it made me sick but it melted and ran. It tasted worse than speed oil or meth.
I got more, this time from a fresh batch, it loses less weight when dry, the odour from the bag( a large amount) to me is exactly like meth, when snorted theres the same burning sensation and tastes.

Its similar to the first stuff i got but seems more effective.

Ive no experience of 'cat', ive read how to make it etc and what i have possibly could be this but ive never heard of it being sold/made here in europe.


How similar is cat to meth? same smell/taste? Is cat easier to make than meth? as meth is more powerful, is more profitable where i am. People would take meth over speed here.

Also what is the best way to store it? is it better to let it dry or keep it wet and speedbomb it? Im letting it dry and snorting it, im not smoking it again as the taste is vomit inducing and left me feeling sick for a good few hours.

Is there a bad comedown from cat? i use benzos and hate the speed comedown so use benzos to knock me out when i want to sleep( although after taking 3g over the period of 2 days 100mg valium and a few joints had little effect)

Ill do a little more research on this 'cat'.

There is a large demand and supply of meth here but perhaps if cat is easier to make we will see more of it around.

Speed comes and goes, its only available now and then ' in batches'. Meth is a constant supply with a higher profit margin than speed or cat. Its easier to get meth than weed as theres no profit in weed.

Also with this stuff i have two major effects are loss of appetite and ability to sleep.

Without sending some to a lab for testing its impossible to say exactly what it is, its the same price as speed and being sold as speed, looks like speed and has the same effects but with the kick of meth.

Anyway it does the job but its got my curiosity aroused and ive done a lot of research on various forums in different languges and it seems that similar reports,descriptions and questions have been asked about this stuff before(one dated 2003) all headed under meth and speed but no mention of cat.

ANyone from Europe heard of or tried this stuff recently? Perhaps its about to flood the market here??
Do today what you'd regret not doing tomorrow if tomorrow never comes..
Well, not a lot of people call it cat on the street. It almost always masquerades as speed....

The main thing that separates it from speed is duration of effects. Cat doesn't last long...~2-3 hrs before needing more.

The reason that cat would show up, it would seem, is simple;

a lack of reducing agent to turn pseudofed into speed....usually red phosphorus and iodine are used for that, or NH3 and lithium.
Cat can be made a variety of ways, probably the simplest being
an oxidation with KMnO4 (potassium permanganate) a la the 'cold cat'

If you are of an experimental nature, search for 'cold cat method'
on google, etc..I'm sure it's still floating around out there....the synth requires no labware, no equipment....the only REAL way to know is to make your own and compare....

Smoking it shouldn't have made you sick. That tends to indicate byproducts not removed in processing.

But I'm pretty sure it's cat. If meth is in constant supply, then perhaps this stuff is coming from a smaller operator.

I haven't an explanation as to why one would make cat if the chems for meth were/are available, the precursor is the same.

If you're in any other country han the one I am in, you can probably find a nice, liberal University where a slightly long-haired professor would be willing to run a GC/MS or similar to ID it....

If you keep cat for long, regardless of how it's stored it will do something called 'dimerize'....aka turn inactive....this is because there is a ketone and an amine on the same carbon of the molecule.

So, it doesn't store well.

"condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance"

Albert Einstein
Thanks Spice,

After doing a lot more research on cat, thats probably what ive got as it seems anyone with hlf a brain cell can make this stuff.

Also the fact that the second lot i got was from a new batch seemed much better quality than the first which indicates this is a smaller operation and its some kitchen cook producing it and getting better.

As for taking it to some Uni here looking for a Prof to run a test id be as well taking it to the cop shop and handing myself in as im in the birthplace of 'National Socialism' and not much has changed regarding law and order in the pas 60 years apart from cops not wearing Swastikas


Thanks for your help, i doubt if ill try a synth myself :wink:
Do today what you'd regret not doing tomorrow if tomorrow never comes..
Its a speed mixture . If it makes you feel a little high its methamphetamine , if it doesnt its either dexamphetamine or amphetamine sulphate . You should not be taking anything that is wet and smells like chemicals . Good speed will burn in your nose . There is NO reason to sniff speed , it burns like fuck and gives you nose blead , make yourself a bomb = rap it in a cigaret paper and drop it or put it in a capsule . If you can do .5 of a gramm and sleep in the first 24 hours its weak crap . Anything with "rocks" in it is crap , especialy coke , unless you know a rich dealer who has made it for himself . Powder is always cut . Put some dry powder on a piece of silver foil that you have burnt off well before to get rid of the coating and then warm it with a lighter from underneath till it forms a droplet and runs . ( If you know what chaseing the dragon is you will understand me ) See what happens , smell it . DONT PUT YOUR NOSE TO CLOSE , with some things the vapor / smoke that comes of it can burst into flames and burn . If it leaves a thick crust its crap . It should run freely and smell a bit like sulpher / amonia . Drop a bit of the dry powder in some water and see if all the powder reacts in the same way , what disolves , what floats on the top and what sinks to the bottom . Speed doesnt come as a white liquid . its always white if its good , if its got to much acid in it to crystalise it it will be brownish and smell strongly . Dont put it in plastic , it will burn a hole in it . Amphetamine base doesnt smell like sulphor / amonia and is a powder not crystals . A magnifying glass or a 15x microscope is good to see the cut . Valium is the best thing to come down on . Drying it will not reduce the potency . Meth is speed . Its not coke , coke makes your nose numb , if it doesnt its bad crap . It is not a pure kat product but could be cut with it or virtualy anything else . The fact that it smells like a solvent doesnt mean much , it is either there from the production or to mix the cut in . I think kat products are more expensive to make than speed so it would make no sense to cut it with that and there is a LOT of speed on the streets at the moment comming from all over europe but especialy east europe . If you did half a gram of good meth you would be awake for at least 3 days .
If in doubt double the dose

"Its hard to be humble , when you`re as great as i am"

Yeah i know how to chase the dragon, thats how i usually take meth, got some a few days on thursday nite, smoked .5g, it left the crust like you said but was till enough to keep me awake until 13hr today and i spent from 17hr yesterday until 11am this morning drinking, including a bottle of vodka in a nightclub,jacky colas,shots and beer.

Ive manged to get 100% pure meth a few times and chased the dragon, left the foil clean and 1g kept me awake and unable to eat fot 10 days.

I think its a speed/cat mix or a bad synthesis. I thought it was base as it drys to a powder but the crystals etc made me wonder.

It def wasnt coke, i know coke and this stuff is 1/4 of the price of coke here:

The buzz was between speed n meth without the comedown apart from a little tiredness
Do today what you'd regret not doing tomorrow if tomorrow never comes..
Your post is exact. If you get any info can you let me know, I am completely curious of the findings.......

Your post is exact. If you get any info let me know. I am completely curious.
im really curious about this
I got curious too.. Wink
Reality is far beyond human perception and intuition.

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